About Time For A DC Thread

Vaughn McMillan

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OK, it's been way too calm around here. Time for a dust collection thread. :p And I'll throw in a little Tai/Chi equipment into the discussion just for fun. :D

Harbor Freight has their 2 HP (yeah, right) single-stage DC on sale this month. I showed the ad to SWMBO yesterday, and to my surprise, she was all for the idea, and urged me to go to HF right away to pick one up. I've seen enough good reviews of this DC that I figured it's one of those HF tools that are worth owning. (Sorta like the HSS lathe chisels many of us start out with.)

I went and picked one up yesterday, got it assembled last night, and it sure does suck. In a good way. :rolleyes: I don't plan to use the 30 micron flour sacks any longer than it takes for the just-ordered Wynn filter to arrive. I think with the .5 micron filter cartridge, I'll be in pretty decent shape. (I did a lot of reading about the good bags vs. cartridge filter debate. For my needs, I believe the cartridge is the way to go.) I also plan to add a neutral vane when the new filter arrives.

I'd prefer to have a Clearvue cyclone with a 5 HP Baldor, but that's simply not within the financial, electrical, or space restraints I have. I'm not planning to run ridgid ducting at this point in time. The DC will be located in roughly the center of the 2-car garage/shop, and I'll move a flex hose from one machine to the next as needed. HF also has their DC accessory kit on sale, which includes 20' of 4" flex hose, clamps, a couple blast gates, and some other parts I don't really need, but I picked up the set just to get things started. I really don't do a lot of milling of rough lumber. Most of my dust is created on the bandsaw and lathe, and while this DC won't eliminate it, it should sure cut down on the quantity. And it should beat the pants off the Shop Vac that's been my sole line of defense against dust so far.

Adding the DC to my shop is no small feat, because I first had to make room for it. Just to get enough space to assemble the thing, I had to move move nearly every piece of equipment (and my bench). In the process of moving things around, I discovered a problem in my lathe stand, so I'll be making some modifications to that soon, too.

The shop is still in total disarray, with stuff piled all over the place, but I'm using the addition of the DC as an excuse for a thorough shop reorganization and de-kludging. I'll be sure to take some pics and post a shop tour thread once all the shuffling is done (and before I have a chance to mess it up again).
 
Hey Vaughn,
I bought the same one a few weeks after I got my planer. It was a real life saver since the planer realy make the chiop, but with the DC hooked up it's no problem. It stays hooked up to the TS most of the time but whenever I set up the planer it gets kooked up to it. It has made a tremendous differance in keeping the shop cleaner. I didn't bother with the HF hose kit I just piked up a couple of 4" dryer hosed from the borg alonmg with some 4" hose clamps.I tried it on the lathe but for now have pretty muck given up on that since the curlies clog up the screen and hose but I do use it as big shop vac when I clean up. When I set up the new shop I'vw already planned how to hook it up to the rest of my tools and will install some 6" ducting, blast gates etc. BTW, don't try to run the 2 HP DC along with your 1 1/2 HP TS on the same circuit, DAMHIKT :eek:
 
oh-geeze! now the forum will go on the fritz again.........d/c and tai/chi in the same thread:eek: ........congratulations vaughn!
 
Vaughn said: "...I also plan to add a neutral vane when the new filter arrives."

Okay, enlighten me. I'm familiar with a neutral vane in a cyclone, but how do you add one to a cartridge filter?

I have a Penn State 2 hp, with cartridge, and if it's effective, I'd be interested in adding a neutral vane to it. Explain?
 
Vaughn said: "...I also plan to add a neutral vane when the new filter arrives."

Okay, enlighten me. I'm familiar with a neutral vane in a cyclone, but how do you add one to a cartridge filter?

I have a Penn State 2 hp, with cartridge, and if it's effective, I'd be interested in adding a neutral vane to it. Explain?

Jim,

The neutral vane is added to the ring that sits between the cartridge and the lower bag. A quick google search will produce all sorts of sites that show the details. I used the article at bt3central when I built mine.

And FWIW, it made a HUGE difference in the operation of the collector. You can actually see the dust and debris 'cyclone' around and down into the bag after the vane was installed.

- Marty -
 
You know Vaughn.... if you don't use a bazillion hp cyclone that filters to a trillionth of a inch you will die instantly. :rofl:

Have fun with the new toy! A great investment for the health.
 
will die instantly. :rofl:

NO he won't! .... He'll die slowly and painfully. ;)


Good move, Vaughn. I've got a 2HP tai/chi unit myself - toolex, local Canadian Importer - with an improved upper bag and I think it works quite well.
Hmm. Actually it may already have a neutral vane, I'm not sure.
 
Vaughn said: "...I also plan to add a neutral vane when the new filter arrives."

Okay, enlighten me. I'm familiar with a neutral vane in a cyclone, but how do you add one to a cartridge filter?

I have a Penn State 2 hp, with cartridge, and if it's effective, I'd be interested in adding a neutral vane to it. Explain?
As in a cyclone, the idea is that the neutral vane keeps the incoming air from disturbing the already-circulating air in the lower part of the DC. In theory, it helps keep the bigger particles in the lower half of the collector, and helps prevent the filter from getting hit by larger debris (and thus potentially making holes in the filter).

Brad Olson has a couple pics showing a couple variations in this page of his site:

http://www.msu.edu/user/olsonbr2/HFDC/HF-DC.htm

And here are some from Loring Chien on BT3 Central:

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=19174&highlight="neutral+vane"

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=19173

I've seen pics showing everything from a simple piece of sheet metal to something fairly complex like the one second one shown in the above link. I think I'll probably try something more simple like the first one shown on Brad's page. I also saw pics last night (and can't find them quickly right now) of a modification whereby someone added about 8" of snap-lock pipe to the center 'donut', again in an effort to keep the big particles in the bottom bag and out of the filter. Without the pics it's hard to describe, so I'll see if I can find them and update this post later tonight.

Don, I've already ordered the chip collection hood for my lunchbox planer...looking forward to trying it out with the Suckutron attached. For the lathe, I'm mainly interested in collecting the sanding dust. The wood chips I can deal with. Agreed on the separate circuits for the DC and TS (or any of my other stationary tools). I'm not positive the circuit it's plugged into now is separate, but I believe it is. I didn't have time last night to play with the house breaker box to be sure. I did confirm I can run the DC and TS with no load at the same time, but I'll see how things cooperate when I'm ripping 8/4 maple. I may have to do some creative extension cording for the time being, until we can upgrade the electrical setup for the whole house.

Tod, the next thing you know dogs and cats will be sleeping with each other. ;) I was tempted to add guided circular saw systems to the post too, but I didn't really want to flirt with disaster that much. :rofl:
 
As long as you understand the limits of any system, it will do you right.

The biggest thing with the system you have is that you need to be able to open a large door or window too and have the air in your worshop exchanged, as the system you have may not pic up the smallest dust, it will certainly get the larger stuff.

If you are aware of this and take steps to deal with it, then you are doing well.....................

What............still no pictures :D
 
What are you going to use for piping?
For now, i'll just move one or two flex hoses around the shop. I realize it's less than ideal, but I've been dragging a Shop Vac (with a 5 gallon chip separater) from tool to tool for the past couple of years, so a flex hose will actually be easier. Someday if I ever remove the carpeting and do a total shop makeover, I might consider piping, but I hope to not be in this garage shop for the rest of my woodworking life, so I'm kind of 'making do' for now.

As long as you understand the limits of any system, it will do you right.

The biggest thing with the system you have is that you need to be able to open a large door or window too and have the air in your worshop exchanged, as the system you have may not pic up the smallest dust, it will certainly get the larger stuff.

If you are aware of this and take steps to deal with it, then you are doing well.....................

What............still no pictures :D
I agree on all your points, Stu. It's definitely less than ideal, but I expect it to be a big step up from a Shop Vac.

Here are a couple pics to prove I'm in the midst of moving everything around. Pretty much everything that's easily moved is not where it's supposed to be. You can see a glimpse of the new DC in the first pic, but the second one shows some of the junk and/or useful stuff (depending on your viewpoint) I've got to get rid of or get into new storage crannies, either in the shop or in the shed out back.

CIMG0361 T 800.jpg CIMG0366 T 800.jpg

No work on it tonight, though...I tweaked my back yesterday, so no lifting today. Plus, it's the opening night of my 8-ball pool league season, so I'm off to shoot a few games.
 
Vaughn...

Here's a tip that I got when I bought my DC. You can buy these heavy duty plastic bags for the bottom, but they're pretty expensive. They need to be heavy duty, so that the fan doesn't just blow them out from the air pressure.

Instead, just KEEP the stock fabric bottom bag, and put any large trash bag INSIDE the fabric bag. I use the large clear leaf bags. The fabric will serve as a container to hold in the plastic so the air pressure doesn't make it explode. Works like a charm. I am careful to only fill them to about 2/3-3/4 full, as they can't take huge amounts of weight.

...art
 
I don't plan to use the 30 micron flour sacks any longer than it takes for the just-ordered Wynn filter to arrive. I think with the .5 micron filter cartridge, I'll be in pretty decent shape. (I did a lot of reading about the good bags vs. cartridge filter debate. For my needs, I believe the cartridge is the way to go.) I also plan to add a neutral vane when the new filter arrives.
.

1.) Been trying to find the pros and cons of why the CARTRIDGE vs a HIGH QUALITY BAG. ($165.) Would you give me your input, as I am within a couple of days of ordering one or the other to replace my 30 micron flour sacks.

2.) Whats your opion on using 1/2 lower bag attached to a 33 gal metal drum, as opposed to the full plastic bags?
I am also considering a high quality 1/2 lower bag. $65.

No.......am not made of money, just tired of depositing the saw dust into my lungs.
 
bob, here`s a name to throw into the mix.......american filter fabric......not pleeted cartridges but the ol` industrial bag house filters....tod
 
bob, here`s a name to throw into the mix.......american filter fabric......not pleeted cartridges but the ol` industrial bag house filters....tod

That is the one I got a quote on yesterday, ball park figure
$145?? for top half and $65. 1/2 bag for the bottom half.

Trying to find out which way to go HF cartridge, vs quality bags.
 
Don't matter how good the bags are, and those are about the best you can get, they do not have the surface area of a pleated cartridge filter.

Without that surface area, you are not going to flow enough air, thus the cartridge will give you more airflow, and pick up more dust, but both will get clogged up and require frequent cleaning.

I recommend a cyclone, buy, build or whatever, but everything else is a stop gap towards a cyclone, IMHO, not trying to ruffle feathers here, but I've done that whole deal, and the cyclone, while a piece of work, is unbeatable, and I'd rather do it right once than putt around with all the other steps (if I were doing it again, as I did the bags and stuff first, but learned the hard way).

I really do understand the whole budget thing, really I do, but, the old question is, what is your health worth?

If you are in a shop, like Don Baer is building, where he can open BOTH garage doors and let the wind whistle through his shop, to clean the air, fine, but if you are in an enclosed space like I am, the cyclone is the only way to go.

Cheers!
 
Bill Pentz says that the most expensive DC is the cheapest one. Because by the time you upgrade a couple of times you spent more than the good one. I need DC bad in my shop but I am holding out for a Cyclone. I am tempted by the cheaper ones, but I just hold my breath. ;)
 
1.) Been trying to find the pros and cons of why the CARTRIDGE vs a HIGH QUALITY BAG. ($165.) Would you give me your input, as I am within a couple of days of ordering one or the other to replace my 30 micron flour sacks.

2.) Whats your opion on using 1/2 lower bag attached to a 33 gal metal drum, as opposed to the full plastic bags?
I am also considering a high quality 1/2 lower bag. $65.

No.......am not made of money, just tired of depositing the saw dust into my lungs.
I'm by no means an expert, but here was my train of thought...

1. As Stu said, the filter has more surface area and should provide better airflow, if I understand things correctly. The filter can get clogged, but knocking the sides and hitting it with compressed air should keep things flowing. For my purposes, I don't do a lot of high-production cutting or sanding, so I don't anticipate cleaning the filter will be too much work or need to happen too often. Plus, the paper/poly filter from Wynn is costing me about $120 shipped, so it's a bit less expensive than a high-end bag. I don't doubt that the bags are good, and I understand that many commercial applications use the bags instead of filters.

Another (stupid) reason for the cartridge for me was that I like the way it looks as opposed to a bag. It just seems cleaner. Like I said, it's a stupid rationale, but it is what it is. ;)

2. I hadn't thought much about a 1/2 bag on the bottom. Seems you'd have to empty it twice as often, but then again, it'd be lighter and easier to handle, which is a valid consideration for some people. I like the idea of a barrel or trash can (or even one of the flour sacks that came with the DC) on the outside of the lower bag.

(BTW, thanks for the tip on trash bags, Art.)

...I recommend a cyclone, buy, build or whatever, but everything else is a stop gap towards a cyclone, IMHO, not trying to ruffle feathers here, but I've done that whole deal, and the cyclone, while a piece of work, is unbeatable, and I'd rather do it right once than putt around with all the other steps (if I were doing it again, as I did the bags and stuff first, but learned the hard way).

I really do understand the whole budget thing, really I do, but, the old question is, what is your health worth? ...
Like I said, a cyclone would be my preference, and I'm sure I'll have one some day, but I can't currently power it, and can't afford it or the things it would take to make it a reality in my shop (such as a $4,000 electrical upgrade to the house). On the other hand, I can set up a single-stage DC with a .5 micron filter for about $300, and although I'll be pushing the limits of my breakers, I can power it with my current electrical configuration. It's likely to be several years before a cyclone is doable for me, so I figure I'm better off spending the money now on a lesser solution as opposed to not having any DC at all. Pretty much anything is better than what I'm currently using. ;)
 
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