Is this smoking ban too far?

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Every society grows through time. Today we have become aware not only of the dangers of smoking, but also of the dangers of second hand smoke. That, in light of this knowledge, children should not be exposed to second hand smoke (won’t go into the role modeling of the behavior here), seems very obvious.

Why do we inscribe into Law dictates against certain behaviors? If anyone has a better idea, I will listen to it.

Now I am a very young man; <58 years old, but I have seen major changes in socially acceptable behaviors through my lifetime. These changes were encouraged by legislation. Actions by individuals and States that seem abhorrent to us today were commonplace earlier. Go back through human history to see more examples.
 
Leinenkugels Red....as I type :D


I wonder how the Tigers will do this year in baseball?:huh:


No snow yet here in southern Michigan.:dunno:


Need another Leinenkugel.....:wave:

We have 3" of :eek: sleet, ice on the ground.
I really have gotten to hate ice and snow for some reason:huh:
 
We've got about 2" of snow and hard packed snow on the roads here. Temps in the low single digits tonight. My Chrysler mini-van sets the door locks at 18mph......I went to a customer site today....the door locks never engaged....You had to start stopping a half a block from a stop sign.....
 
Ken,
Made several trips thru the base of the ID chimney between Seattle and Missoula... Plains, MT, actually. The Montanans had studded tires for fair weather, but when the snowpack turned to ice during the Chinooks, my chains put me at the top of the class.

Oh right, this is a thread on SMOKING! Got really good at rolling Bugler behind the wheel on those trips, and yes, there was a child in the car. Wouldn’t do that now, tho.
 
Ken,
Made several trips thru the base of the ID chimney between Seattle and Missoula... Plains, MT, actually. The Montanans had studded tires for fair weather, but when the snowpack turned to ice during the Chinooks, my chains put me at the top of the class.

Oh right, this is a thread on SMOKING! Got really good at rolling Bugler behind the wheel on those trips, and yes, there was a child in the car. Wouldn’t do that now, tho.
Chains...smoking...how do chain-smokers get those things lit?!? :huh:
 
Frank....I was raised in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and southern Illinois. While in the Navy in Meridian MS...I worked part time at the Sear store on the loading dock. One morning I got up to find about 1/2" of fresh slushy snow on the ground. I drove into town (we lived in base housing). The Sears store was a class B store if I remember correctly and normally would have about 40-50 employees there. When I got there there were 8 of us. The manager told us at 0900...everybody take a break...lock the doors....close the doors on the warehouse..we'll get our coffee break.....During the coffee break this one native Mississipian salesman said "I don't know how you Yankees drive in this stuff......I was doing 70 mph when I crossed this bridge....I turned around twice before I got across it."......As I sipped my coffee I smiled and said..."We Yankees know enough to NOT drive 70 mph in this stuff".:D
 
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Chains...smoking...how do chain-smokers get those things lit?!? :huh:
Well now I remember the trip thru Donner Pass, when I had to lie in fresh wet snow to put the chains on. I was the hitch-hiker. While I was well versed in chain application, I was unprepared; not having a pad or chains cut to length. My fingers became somewhat white, and I couldn’t hold a ciggy for an hour or so, much less light one.

BTW, I still have four tire chains in an old ammo box in the box of my truck… just in case.
 
Frank....I carry 2 sets of chains that I've fitted to the tires of my p/u. The are in 2 gunny sacks behind the seat. Everybody I elk hunted with carried 2 sets. We often had to chain up to get into and out of elk camp.
 
Frank....I was raised in Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and southern Illinois......As I sipped my coffee I smiled and said..."We Yankees know enough to NOT drive 70 mph in this stuff".:D
That reminds me of the “Winter of Snow” in Seattle. Combine steep hills, people unused to snow covered roads, and an unusually cold winter in the city… and whoopy watch out! Me, I love driving on snow! When I was younger, I would drive in snow storms for the sheer joy of it, and stop to pull people out of the ditch.

But back to the smoking topic… before I landed my first metalworking job there, I set up a folding table in the Public Market and rolled cigarettes for people. I was down and out after picking apples across the state, and my stand was illegal. I offered several tobaccos and long papers. Mine were better than Shermans.
[EDIT] It was a year or two later, while reading a mag on an airplane, that I learned what everyone else meant when they referred to the “Winter of Snow”.
 
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On to chains eh? :D

Living in Vancouver BC for about 5 years, I had to drive into the university every day, I had a little front wheel drive Mazda GLC (good little car) and I put good all seasons on all four corners. I had no trouble driving in the snow we got in Vancouver, compared to my hometown it was nothing, but them locals....... :eek: Scary to say the least. One day I watched for nearly an hour as one after another car went sliding into the same ditch as they tired to stop for a stop sign at the bottom of a small hill. I was across the road helping a lady get out of a ditch, I had a tow rope and I dragged her out with my little GLC. I sat there and watched one car after another coming way to fast, on summer tires, see the ice (you could have skated on it, it was so smooth) hit the brakes, lock the wheels and loose control. At one point there were 14 cars in the ditch, including the police cruiser that responded to the scene :rofl:

The only thing worse was the tow truck driver who also responded, he had sniped tires, but they were not good enough, so he went to put the chains on and did not have a clue, so I helped him out. At one point an older car, some kind of Chrysler boat came down the hill at a nice even pace, slipped a couple of times but never hit the brakes, and drove through the intersection nicely. The fellow stopped and got out of his car to help out, he was about 70 or so years old, and said he grew up in Winnipeg, and he had retired out west in Vancouver to get away from the snow, but at least he knew how to drive in it!

When I was 16, my first winter of driving (legally) my dad took me down to the local shopping mall on a Sunday (back then it was illegal to open your store on a Sunday) and there was about 6" of snow on the parking lot, HUGE parking lot, nothing to bump into. We went round and round in his old Pickup, power sliding, hard braking, etc we where having a ball, laughing our guts out, and I was learning how to drive in the snow................. the the Mounties showed up.......... Well my dad explained to the Mounties that he was giving me a defensive driving course, and wasn't it better that I learn to control a car in the snow on this vacant parking lot, than the streets....?

The cop agreed, but said it would be better if we were not enjoying ourselves so darn much :rolleyes: :D

Yep, I too love driving in the snow, my little three wheeled delivery scooter, I have chains for it, when it snows here, I use it for deliveries, great traction and it goes anywhere, and if it gets stuck, I just lift it out of the mess.

Cheers!
 
And now back to our highly discussed topic!

This is a slippery slope.

I agree with smoking bans in resturants -- or having the ability to designate that a resturant is smoking so one can make the choice.

I don't agree that workers "don't have a choice" where they can chose to work

I think that people who chose to bring kids into the world should be responsible for them and that we are getting into too much of a nanny state.

Most of us got to this point in our lives without mandatory bike helmets! What are they going to ban next, climbing trees? ice skating? running?

I understand that the line between individual freedom of choice and collective good can get blurred.

And I think that we as a society throw around too many victim words too easily. I can remember getting swatted on the butt as a child -- don't think I was abused -- but I am certain that if someone saw my Dad "correct my behavior" in today's culture he would have been accused of that.

I guess the problem lies in the fact that we've let the Federal governement assume the responsiblity for paying for the result of these "bad behaviors" we then open the door for the argument that "your personal choice" influences me because I have to pay for it therefore we should legislate against it.

Yes I smoked for a couple of years in my teens/twenties

I know it is bad for someone's health.

And maybe it is a bit of retrospective nostalgia but I Googled this article

How Did We Survive Childhood
Washngton Times | December 29, 2003 | Wesley Pruden

"According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were kids in the '40s, '50s, '60s and '70s probably shouldn't have survived. Our mothers put us in cribs covered with bright-colored lead-based paint.

"There were no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets, and when we rode our bicycles into traffic (bike paths were unheard of), we had no helmets. If we didn't feel like pumping a bike up the hills, we could always hitch a ride with strangers. There were no seat belts or air bags. Riding in the back of a pickup truck on a warm day was particularly special.

"We drank water from an old garden hose, not from a bottle. One bottle of bellywash could be shared with up to four friends, drinking from the bottle, and no one died. "We gorged on cakes, pies, candy, bread and butter, and anything we could find with lots of sugar in and on it, and we were never overweight because we were always running through the 'hood.

"We never heard of 'play dates,' and left home in the morning and played all day, and the only rule was to get home before the streetlights flickered on. No one could reach us because nobody had a cell phone. "We spent hours building go-carts from lumber and nails scrounged from neighbors' garages and raced them down the hill to discover only at the bottom of the intersection that we forgot the brakes. Running into the bushes was good enough.

"We fell out of trees, played with BB guns until we got a .22 rifle on our 12th birthday, fought "war" with dirt clods, broke bones, lost teeth, stepped on nails and caught fishhooks in noses. Nobody's daddy had a lawyer. "We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate worms, and most eyes survived intact (the worms didn't).

"We walked into our friends' houses whenever we felt like it. We chose up sides for ballgames, and if somebody didn't make the team, he learned to deal with it. There was nobody to counsel the losers (who would have felt insulted if there had been). "The generations that suffered these deprivations made the best of it, producing the explosion of innovation and ideas that transformed the world.

"Kind of makes you want to run through the house with a pair of scissors, doesn't it?"
 
Tire chains and traction......Only expierience I have with tire chains is when we would get a bunch of freezing rain but the 300 head of cows we had, still needed to be fed. With that many brood cows you don't keep them in a barn...waaaay too much dung would need to be removed...and often. So our cattle wintered in a dense cedar grove and did well. A tractor pulling a wagon with that much hay out to the cattle would never get enough traction on that frozen ground so we had chains for the tractor. Only problem was if a chain link would break it could sure make a mess out of a tractor fender pretty quick.

Frank, what brand of tobacco did you offer?
 
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