Tablesaw safety (kickbacks)

Aaron Beaver

Member
Messages
427
Location
Missouri
This was on another forum but I wanted to see responses here as well. I know what causes a kick back but I have never seen one.

Which piece Kicks back, the one between the fence and blade or the other one or can it be either piece?

Where you supposed to stand? I know European saws make you stand to the side to use them but most saws here you can't.

Just looking for some guidelines so maybe I could re-evaluate how I use my table saw for different cutting situations.
 
Which piece Kicks back, the one between the fence and blade or the other one or can it be either piece?

The piece between the blade and the fence.

Where you supposed to stand? I know European saws make you stand to the side to use them but most saws here you can't.

Stand to the side. If the fernce is to the right stand to the left so that in the event of a kickback you won't be in the line of fire.

Use feather boards, hold downs and a splitter to minimise kickback. Also adjest you fense so that it is slitly open at the back to prevent pintching the cut piece will also help to minimise the chances of a kickback.

If you ever see one you won't forget it. DAMHIKT
 
I've seen both sides. If the piece on the outside (left) of the blade gets caught between the pawls on the guard and the blade it can come back at you. DAMHIKT! :doh:
 
Aaron,
I'll repeat what Don said...he's right on.

I recommend using the Gripper or something similar. You can find info on microjig dot com. This is the best money I ever spent on safety equipment.

FYI - I'm a tightwad and only justified purchasing the Gripper after a nasty kickback. Still have the mark on my ribs to remind me to stand clear and be safe. I hope you don't learn the same way I did.:eek:
 
I have two of the Grippers and use them all the time, on the jointer, router table, besides the table saw. I always hear people talk about kickbacks and why they occur just didn't know what got kicked back. I don't use pawls but I do use the Micro-J low profile splitters.

I am pretty safe on my saw and I am even getting some board buddies to help out more so I was curious. The only time I do not stand to the left of my saw blade is when I am cutting a piece of ply wood down and the larger portion is between the fence and blade.
 
aaron, all my saw injuries are from kickbacks.......on both sides of the blade...if the blade is able to grab a loose board it`ll kick it! as a rule of thumb if you`ve got hold of a board and it`s tight to the fence you`ll be fine...but, there`s the odd exception to this rule where the offcut gets into the left side of the blade:eek: .....there ain`t nuthin` you can do then but keep your fingers clear and hope you remembered safety glasses....yeah it hurts to get nailed by flying wood but never try and grab the offcut close to or from in back of the blade.......better to take a lick than loose fingers....tod
 
and formica is thin enough to slide under most fences........when it gets sideways it kinda expoldes:eek: .....when cutting formica be sure to place a board or piece of cardboard next to the fence to keep the piece from creeping under........
 
If the fernce is to the right stand to the left so that in the event of a kickback you won't be in the line of fire.
Don, I have to disagree with this, respectfully of course. I always stand such that i have to reach over the fence. My theory is that 1) the fence will help deflect anything should it happen to launch and 2) standing on the opposite side as you describe put at least one part of my body in the line of fire, at a minumum my arm. I also would find it hard to push the lumber from the opposite side of the fence.
 
Don, I have to disagree with this, respectfully of course. I always stand such that i have to reach over the fence. My theory is that 1) the fence will help deflect anything should it happen to launch and 2) standing on the opposite side as you describe put at least one part of my body in the line of fire, at a minumum my arm. I also would find it hard to push the lumber from the opposite side of the fence.

I understand what you are saying but I feel more confortable feeding the stock with my right hand. If I stood like you described Id have to feed with my left hand or cross armed. To me this is less safe. just the way I work. I still haven't had a problem with kickbacks to the unguided side of the blade.
 
Hi Aaron,
It never hurts to disscuss safety. The kickbacks I have had happen occured when the fence was out of alignment and the blade was closer to the fence in the back, than in the front, or the the kerf closed up while cutting, pinching the blade and thus a strong backward thrust. Other things which may not have a name is the "spin and throw" often occuring with the 1/4" ply especially when crosscutting long thin lengths. Usually it occurs, wiwth me, when ( fence on right,... blade on left) there is drag on the piece to the left of the blade that in effect causes the wood to come away from the fence in the far right corner of the piece being cut. The piece being cut is now lifted up onto the teeth of the blade rather than being cut and since you have pressure pushing the wood against the fence at the near right edge, the piece pivots off that corner and spins quickly, propelled by the teeth, in a counterclockwise motion, usually catching us at the table top level, or so I have experienced.
I stand, slightly to the left of blade so that a kick back between the blade and the fence will not strike me if it flies. "The spin and throw"... Keep that wood against the fence!
Shaz
 
i've definitely seen my share of kickbacks. both while i'm at the saw and when i'm watching someone else work. worse one i ever had was when i was working in a cabinet shop about 5 years ago i was ripping cypress for face frames. after i would push the board through with a push stick i would reach behind and grab it to place it on the right side of the fence. well monotany got the best of me and my grip on the board was not as firm as it should have been. it slipped and the blade caught it, now this was a 2" wide board, about 12-14' long, and that blade launched it like a missle, and unfortunately ended up hitting me in the worst possible place a guy could want to get hit. :eek: needless to say i was on the ground for a few minutes after that. and no when i rip boards and move the piece, my grip is always good. :thumb: sucks i had to learn that way though.

stay safe
chris
 
Jim,

I wouldn't feel at all comfortable doing as you describe, and like Don, don't feel comfortable pushing with my left hand. I know this is a personal thing, and some folks like to rip with the blade on the right side of the fence, and do the opposite as I typically do, having the blade on the left of the fence. In fact if I was cutting with the blade on the right side, I think I would still need to use my right hand to push the wood against the fence, as I do the left hand when ripping with the blade on the left side. I'm a paranoid table saw operator, mainly because that's how I was taught and was taught to never let my guard down and expect kickback always. I always try to have a strong push all the way through the distance of the blade.

Now that I have a right tilt saw, maybe that will change, but I think I will be ripping with the blade on the left side of the fence as I always do, I rarely would bevel a rip. In that case I would need to flip the fence to the other side.

BTW, one effect that I classify as kickback is cutting bevels and having the cutoff pinch between the blade and the table, firing back. I've seen some stock flying off the blade for even a crosscut. I never stand behind the cutoff side of a bevel cut (which should be the area between the blade and table.

I'm intrigued with the european style of ripping where a board is secured to the fence, allowing space at the backside of the blade and fence, and saw that Mule Cab has a europen jig option for their Accusquare fence.

Anybody have any experience with the Accusquare fence and/or European Jig that Mule Cab sells? I've been eyeing it for my table saw, but haven't felt good enough to pull the trigger on anything. I like the Beismeyer but it's quite a bit more for the rails and fence. The European Jig looks like a nice option for the Accusquare.
 
I've never had one while ripping...

I think partially due to using two push sticks, the left hand one acting as a splitter and also handy for wedging into a kerf that is trying to close on the back of the blade. It looks like I'm in the minority for where to stand. I'm almost always right in line with the blade or a little left of it (stock feeding on the right), to better control the stock with both hands (each with a stick that is).

Another factor is that I rarely cut plywood on the tablesaw anymore, prefering the guided circular saw. Seems like a lot of accidents occur when cutting up plywood, though maybe that's just my imagination.

I have launched some blocks when cross cutting, though not often, and did once do something very stupid with a tenoning jig that resulted in multiple drywall dents. I still don't know how I escaped getting that one right smack in the forehead.

I still kind of wonder how dangerous kickbacks are. Sure, they're spectacular, and they happen pretty often, but I don't worry about kickback anywhere near as much as losing a finger or two.

John
 
I'm a little paranoid like Alan. I learned from my dad way back when there weren't any fancy add-on safety devices. I remember that he had about 9 3/4 fingers and I've always strived to keep ahead of him.

I think it's more important to stand where you feel completely in control of what you're doing and use whichever hand give you the most control. So far, I've been lucky enough that any mistakes I've made with the TS or router have only give me a couple really good raps on fingers / knuckles. No matter what or how many safety devices you use - push sticks, feather boards, splitters, Board Buddies, Grip Tites or combinations of them - you still need your brain engaged 100% at all times. My mistakes have come from brain farts, making "just one quick cut," not fully focusing exactly on what I was doing or not taking the extra time to adequately set up the cut.

The other problem area comes when you're 90-95% finished with a job and you start to mentally relax 'cuz you're almost done. I still clearly remember several years ago when I had almost completed routing the profile on cabinet door frames and the router grabbed the whole frame and threw it against a wall 8' away where it exploded.

As for crosscuts trapping stock between the blade and fence, I make most of those cuts with a miter gauge and a short 3/4" spacer clamped on the close end of the fence which is then set at my final size + 3/4" By the time the stock gets to the blade, there's a 3/4" wide area for it to move in after the cut.

Mike
 
I still kind of wonder how dangerous kickbacks are. Sure, they're spectacular, and they happen pretty often,

John

john, my two worse kickbacks occured from each side of the blade...the one that got pinched between the blade-n-fence hit my right thumb so hard that i`m only able to grow a portion of the nail now.......the one on the left side of the blade launched a piece of maple into my face hard enough that i could see teeth through the hole it dug in my cheek......i`ve also had countless "splinters" get caught by my beard en route to my throat.......
ya`ll be careful-n-safe!
 
Never us the tablesaw to cross-cut while using the fence as a length guard. Doing this risks a kick-back right into the solar plexus with enough force to knock out a person. And is it very painful. Keep in mind that the fence is really a "rip fence". Don't ask me how I know this. :eek:
 
Never us the tablesaw to cross-cut while using the fence as a length guard. Doing this risks a kick-back right into the solar plexus with enough force to knock out a person. And is it very painful. Keep in mind that the fence is really a "rip fence". Don't ask me how I know this. :eek:


I have done this but since I have the Uni-fence I move it back so it stops short of the blade. That way I can push the piece up against it to get my length then guide it with my miter but the fence ends before the blade contacts the wood so no pinching in that way.

All good adivce guys and good discussion. I have never stood on the right of my fence and not sure I would feel comfortable but I am left handed so pushing with my left hand wouldn't feel bad. I just use my right hand right now because thats the way I see it most so I just learned from watching.
 
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