school?

Marty, Tod,
I think you are one the right track. I have been asked by clients is I'd be willing to teach some begining woodworking and actualy when I can afford to slow down the rufurbising business when I retire I plan on doing just that. With the cutbacks in budgets the schools just can't afford to do it any more.
In thinking of a curriculum. I would think you could start out by teaching basics like diferent types of joining. The proper way to plane and join boards for in stock prep. etc etc. Then you could offer more advanced course that go into other teniques such as laminating and vaneering. I think you get my drift.
Anyhow glad to see you back posting again Marty.

Well sign me up. I think this would be a great learning experince, plus getting to meet Tod and Marty would be great. Any idea on what are you going to teach? Ive seen classes go from how-to on machines to Detailed carvings. I would like to take a class or two on veneer work and carving. Good luck with this.

Vaughn McMillan said:

Who's Marty?

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Oooh, ouch.

And although unspoken, I think there are 2 major points to be considered when offering classes to woodworkers.
First, Pride.
While educated and experienced craftsmen know they can always learn from someone with more experience in a particular area, I find alot of woodworkers, have a certain amount of pride that would prevent them from either wanting to admit they should find help, or would want to admit they might not be at the stage yet as all the other students in the room.
Money-Is it me? Or do all woodworkers sound like cheapies?
We talk about trash diving(me included) like its an olympic event.We'd be handing out 9.7's for some of the scores here.
Were proud to admit we salvaged someone elses garbage.
It might be tough for some to say ok, Ill take a class in Veneering 101 for 150 bucks, after he spent an hour in a trash can taking hardware off someone's discarded furniture.(I would say hey, I took 6 slides off of someones discarded particle board furniture and saved 4 bucks a set, now I can spend that on classes)

I'll post a couple of additional things I thought of.

For turning, most schools that teach beginners use the Jet mini-lathe because it's not too expensive and you have to have one for each student. Ditto a set of tools and a sharpening station.

For flatwork, time is your enemy. It takes a long time to cover what has to be done, then for the students to do it, etc. When I teach, I'm really pushing my students. If one is having problems, I jump in and do the function so that they can keep up. You can't handle a bunch of students who are all at different stages of the project when you don't have much time. When you have lots of time, you can teach differently.

And tools. If you teach from your facility, you need a bench and tools for each student.

And safety. If the students are newcomers, you have to start with how to use each of the tools, and the safe practices. It takes a long time. And you can't assume that someone is safe on a table saw (for example) just because they've been doing woodworking for a couple of years. Unless you just beat them over the head, one of them will try freehand cutting on the TS.

And students. Some are klutzes and will never be able to do woodworking. And you usually get one in each class. You also usually get one "star" in each class who's blowing along and wants to do more.

Once you teach a few classes you know what to expect and how to deal with it. I find it a lot of fun. (Mostly, I each carving and veneer work.)

Mike

A few thoughts.

The classes would have to be advertised for and geared to a specific skill level. It would not be fair to those in the class with more experience to be held back by someone who has never used a table saw.

Due to the lack of tools class sizes should be limited to probably only 4 or 5 students. Two instructors alternating working on different techniques with half the class would probably give everyone plenty of hands on time.

Teaching techniques in my opinion would draw the most interest. I would seriously think about attending a class on making cabriole legs, veneer, carving, finishing, advanced router techniques.... but I wouldn't have any interest in attending a class on making a specific piece of mission or queen anne style furniture because it's not my style.

I would love to take a class on brushing up on my lathe skills but I would want it to be specific to turning legs for example.

Good points were brought up about where you would hold your classes. In your own shop? a local high school? Rented VFW hall? Think about the costs and what the payback will be. It could be a real big eye opener for you.

When I think about "teachers" my first thoughts are on the 2 television woodworkers I watch the most, David Marks and Norm Abram. While I admire the skill and talent of Marks the projects he makes and the wood he uses are way above my financial and skill level. I would go to a demonstration of his if it was free but i would not pay to have a lesson from him. Abrams on the other hand inspires the average woodworker (thats me) to #1 get in my shop and build something, and #2 to work on increasing my skill level by building increasingly harder projects. I would pay to go to a class given by Norm.

I remember when I was a little kid my parents paid for me to have guitar lessons. The teacher would spend a half hour showing off all his skills and never taught me anything. Eventually I learned on my own by buying a book.
Point being most people learn by doing and not seeing. Everyone will have to have enough hands on time and 1 on 1 with a patient teacher.

One thing that comes to mind for me is; Do you like to teach? I spent several years in the navy teaching skills of various sorts. You need to be a very patient "people person" and be able to stand the repetition of doing/teaching the same thing over and over and over and...... I have a short attention span so I got quite bored with instructing, but many other people loved it. I imagine you have already considered this.

Guys,
you both have walked the walk, you work well together, now it is 'simply' a matter of how to get that to the public and hopefully make some money at doing so. Having read Marty's shop build and hints at the 'secret project' (did that ever really surface and did I miss it somewhere by the way?) I know Marty can 'talk the talk' as well. tod is plain spoken, AND his work speaks for itself, I bet that you two would do Very well teaching together. Question is where to do it. You mentioned traveling and teaching, well that's a good concept, how are you going to do the traveling part? Fly? Doubt it... or not easily.
Drive, sure, at that point you're then looking for a venue to do the demonstration at. Are you going to market to woodworking clubs? using their physical site? Or go through a Brick and Mortar store like Woodcraft of Rockler? That seems to have worked well for several people, Bill Grumbine comes to mind. Speaking of little Bill, Perhaps a Video might be in order too... Marty's shop would be an awesome site for a video lesson or a hundred imho.
For that matter, Marty's shop would be a Great place to do serious seminars. You've got hundreds (thousands???) of fans here and over next door who watched with bated breath as you created the shop, how many of us have said 'that's one shop I'd love to visit' (count me in on that list for certain)

Getting the paying public to Pay is another issue, but one that is for another thread perhaps. Figure out what you're going to teach, and where, then worry about that I suppose.

I'm absolutely one who would enjoy taking a class, but like many, my budget is limited in these times. You two are on a short list of teachers I'd seriously consider traveling to see however, right up there with Bill G. (whom I'm still planning on taking a class from one of these years).

i was aware of this idea a while back, and they have been doing alot of thinkun on it.. from what i have read thus far one thing that stands out to me is the specailized parts like the carving a claw foot or the cabroile legs idea.. marty is the voice and the lion tamer ,,tod is the lion that can do most anything.. i think that in order for this to work efficiently they might be able to pull this of in other folks shops.. one thing tod is excellent at is making do with what he or you have, and if he needed something special that could be gotten. that is something that we all can learn,, making due with our tools not the new one on the shelf at the tool store...
marty, all he needs is a student that is willing to learn..he might have to slow down some for those of us that are in a slower gear than him. to get enough folk in one spot is gonna be tough.. there has been folk close to martys shop at a tool show and didnt have the time to make the next step to see it let alone go there for a class..it was there loss... marty's shop is definitely a place where this could happen and in my opinion and like others have said be the key spot for the beginning..less cost to get going and therefor less chance of not breaking even ..

After reflecting a bit more on this thread I am recalling the time I attended the one and only workshop I have ever attended. It was at Sam Maloof's. The one I attended was an 8 hours work shop. I am aware that when he would travel he would put on 3 day and 5 day work shop and I wish I had been able to attend one of those but alas it's to late for that. Anyhow, during the 1 day class he showed us how he made his pedistal table, his low back chair and finaly his rocker. The way the class was conducted he would show us how he made the various pieces, sometime by just the parts and then how he assembled them. Some times he would show a table leg and show us the three component and explain how he put them together then he would illistrate how he took a template and used it to cut the final shape an the band saw. He showed us how he made the center column and then how he attached the pieces to it. When he felt it was necessary he would demonstrat making cuts on the band saw or with a router or with a rasp. Those BTW were the only tools he used during the entire work shop. He did the same for both chairs. At the end of the work shop he gave us a home work assignment to go home and make a table and a chair. I did just that and was able to duplicate the entire project as documented here. Since then I have made several more tables and chairs using what I learned without having any hands on training. I guess what I'm saying is if it is done right you don't need to have a lot of equipment.

Have not been around for a while as work has been very busy. I am in full support of the Tod & Marty School of Woodworking and would attend classes of interest. Hope all is well with the membership and I will try to be more active as business is stablizing.

Also, if Marty and Tod are teaching at Marty's shop, does that mean we have to expand the shop? If so, count me in for more construction. the first time was a blast!!!! If you need a location out here, you both are welcome to use my shop as a West Coast base and we have hotels/motels that are clean and inexpensive. i would even still pay for the instruction in my own facility.

Joe

joe blankshain said:

Have not been around for a while as work has been very busy. I am in full support of the Tod & Marty School of Woodworking and would attend classes of interest. Hope all is well with the membership and I will try to be more active as business is stablizing.

Also, if Marty and Tod are teaching at Marty's shop, does that mean we have to expand the shop? If so, count me in for more construction. the first time was a blast!!!! If you need a location out here, you both are welcome to use my shop as a West Coast base and we have hotels/motels that are clean and inexpensive. i would even still pay for the instruction in my own facility.

Joe

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Huh, I just gotta ask this, Joe, but "HOW" did you get Charleston moved to the West Coast??????

There is a Charleston in Utah. Just south of Midway and Heber City. At the top of the Provo Canyon. i am good, but not that good.

Is there enough demand is the real question. Can you get people to pay and show up?? I think the teaching part is the easiest part if you have that gift.

My next thought was what are you going to offer that will interest people and make them come? Are you going to demonstrate how you build something? Are you going to have them build something? Big difference there and both could work I am sure.

I have been tossing around teaching kayak building. having a week long class and students come in and build a kayak to take home. The draw here is "I build a kayak and it's mine!"

My very first question when I read this was "What's the draw?"

Lot of other good points raised too.

Have you check into insurance. I belong to a woodworking club we contacted AWA about insurance. If I put on a demo and someone close got hurt, they said their covered unless they have AWA insurance. That didn't make a lick of since to me. So we wrote them back and asked why, waiting for reply.

Bill

I'd say do a feasibility test. Send out questionnaires or emails and ask how many would attend and then cut the number in half and see if you can still turn a profit. Contact local hotels and ask for a break on lodging, you'd be surprised I think at the beak off some will give you. Have a lawyer draw up a contract that protects you. You have probably done a lot of this already, just my two cents, I've had several business and you'll always over look something I'd call some woodworking schools to get some tips. A third of your profit should go toward advertising.

Bill

David Marks started teaching (after the TV show ended) by doing private lessons in his shop (around $500/day if I remember right). He now is on the road at Woodcraft and other venues a lot of the time, and has group classes in his own shop, so I don't know if he does private lessons, but that may be a way to get started, and be able to pace the class exactly to the needs of the student. (When you get a pattern, you know what and how fast to teach in a group class)

Sam Blasco does weekend classes at his own shop, specializing in the use of the MiniMax tools. The cost of a group weekend is comparable to a private day class.

I have had several inquiries about teaching... my shop is too small to be safe with multiple people, and I don't use all the guards, so I won't do it in my own shop. I have discussed teaching in a student's shop, but it hasn't worked out yet.

Start publishing articles in magazines, and your fame will grow, and the opportunities increase.