Making my shop smaller...

Ned Bulken

Member
Messages
5,529
Location
Lakeport NY and/or the nearest hotel
yes, really.

It got down below freezing last night, and despite my excellent insulating job on 1/2 of the shop, the heater still needed a bit of help to make things reasonably warm in there. To that end, I'm planning on making my shop smalller this weekend. In addition to finishing my lathe stand and stuffing more insulation in the last remaining walls, I'm going to go pick up about 6 sheets of the blue ridgid insulating sheets and make a ceiling at about the 10' or so level. I'm going to screw them onto the bottom of the joists under the loft, and then put some cleats along the wall to hold up some sheets to keep the heat down where it is useful. I'm also going to be up and down my ladder a bunch, installing soffits and some 1/2" ply to cover the gaps in the upper walls where snow blew in last winter.

If I have any energy left, I'm also going to build a solar heater or two out of left over 1/2" ply. basically a two chambered box that pumps warm air into the shop when it is sunny, and stops when the sun goes down. A few 2x4's, some black paint and I'll be in business!
 
Ceilings are one of the biggest helpers in keeping a space warm, i've found. Good idea, ned :)

About this heater - I'm curious to see whatcha got cookin (!) there - it sounds quite interesting. Any details? :)
 
Ceilings are one of the biggest helpers in keeping a space warm, i've found. Good idea, ned :)

About this heater - I'm curious to see whatcha got cookin (!) there - it sounds quite interesting. Any details? :)

Jason,
I'm in the process of researching it, but basically it is a two chambered box, upper one 'Should' should ideally be glass (I'm going to try and use corrugated clear roofing panels from the borg)

here's a link with the basic idea:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/mssungrabber.htm


I'm also thinking of building a couple of those for my house to help defray heating costs. have to see how much the materials (plastic) are going to be first.
 
Last edited:
Oh check that out ... i hadn't seen that style before. I've seen the soda cans collector system, but this one's inventive. I like how it's built to be used through a window.

I can't wait to see how it works out for ya :)
 
Ned, For the solar collecter, a cleat nailed on the top side, just inside the window might help with holding it in and give a good place to weather strip against. Great idea!
 
Ned think about maybe using Roxul http://www.roxul.com/residential/products/roxul+comfortbatt™
the green stuff with a poly vapor barrier. When i did my ceiling i stapled the poly to the joists and then lay the roxul on top. It holds its own self up pretty good too if you have to shove it in between the joists and then cover with poly. I think you will get more bang for your buck there than the rigid stuff and a better R value. I used the R22 Roxul and its precut and you can cut it with a breadknife to shape. Another thing a Pro at the HD told me is you can compress Roxul or it can get wet and it will still hold the R value not so for the pink stuff. Dont know about the rigid stuff seemed too expensive for me for the Rvalue that it provides.

I also made sure to seal the gaps using expanded foam (Great Stuff ) at HD http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/specialty/pro13gun.htmand a little tip i found here is that its worth the investment to buy a reusable gun that screws onto the can of expanded foam. First those cans are larger and cheaper per unit foam and then you dont get forced to try use the whole can just because you started it and dont want the straw blocking up. There is a spray cleaner that you attach to the gun that cleans it out after use so a single can is then able to be used multiple times until you have used it up and it then goes a long way unlike the one time use ones.

Enjoy, i will be thinking of you when i am nice and toasty in my shop.:D Boy winters coming quick this year.
 
Last edited:
Ned think about maybe using Roxul http://www.roxul.com/residential/products/roxul+comfortbatt™
I also made sure to seal the gaps using expanded foam (Great Stuff ) at HD http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/specialty/pro13gun.htmand a Enjoy, i will be thinking of you when i am nice and toasty in my shop.:D Boy winters coming quick this year.

Rob,
thanks! I'll be checking into that tomorrow. I finished a project ahead of the rest of my team so my boss is comping me a day, so I get a whole day to play out in the weather and the shop...

Darren,
what's a 'win doe' that you speak of? ;) Good tip, re the cleat. I'm all for that! Actually for the units for the house, I have the 'luxury' of not having trim around the windows yet, so I can screw right into the casings as needed, plus the shop doesn't Have windows, I'll be cutting holes to move air through out there.
 
Well,
I've not been able to sleep tonight, so I've been doing a bit more research. Looks like I'm going to go with a slightly different approach/plan (not that I really had a firm plan in mind as of yesterday). I did a little more reading and found this plan which uses the wall itself with a couple of holes cut into the side wall (hey, it's only OSB folks, no gasping allowed). I'm 'lucky' in that the east and south walls haven't been insulated yet, and unlucky in that MOST of the southern wall is where my main Doors are. HOwever, I have a doorway framed in the southwest facing wall, which I can easily tear into if it means 'free' or nearly free heat for the shop for the winter. I will Happily seal up the two main doors for the winter and open up that other doorway.

Reading the article I linked to above, the author describes getting a heat gain of 60* above ambient during the day and 10-15* above at night using what is termed a thermosyphon. The sun hits the absorbant materials (they use window screening, I'm thinking of landscape cloth (I have a roll handy, and if I need more it is bound to be cheap and on sale at this time of year)) the warm air rises, entering the building through a vent in the wall, drawing the cooler air in from the bottom of the collector through a similar vent. Once it gets going, the syphon effect drives itself. It can work in reverse as well, however, but simply closing off the top vents will stop cool air from going down the syphon drawing the warmth out of the building.

I also have a bunch of that nice dark green tin roof left over. I bet if I built a frame around that, it would soak up the heat quite nicely, with some glazing over it and an air space behind it for the thermosyphon, it might work even better than the landscape cloth.

Materials should be mostly what I have on hand, with the exception of the 'glazing'. I'm going to price some of the polycarbonate roof panels, IF they're not too expensive, I'll pick up enough to build collectors for around the doorway to the shop. If they're out of my price range, I'll opt for a double layer of simply 8 mil clear (opaque?) plastic. A different article suggests using that for economy's sake. I"m all for that right about now. The shop will get a 'test' version, if I get good results I may just retrofit the house with a larger, more polished version and hopefully cut down our heating bill.

No matter what, I expect I'll be building the 'window' version as well for at least one bedroom which has an east/south face. I figure every btu I pump into the house for 'free' is one I don't have to pay National Grid for.

OK my eyelids are slamming shut, quick email to my boss and I"m headed for bed for a few hours.

C yas later.
 
Last edited:
...Materials should be mostly what I have on hand, with the exception of the 'glazing'. I'm going to price some of the polycarbonate roof panels, IF they're not too expensive...

Ned,
Check out your local Goodwill or Salvation Army thrift store - or maybe even the Habitat for Humanity resale store if you have one. They may have some used windows that you can salvage cheaply.
 
Ned:

There's a guy on the "wreck" whose primary goal is what you are describing, passive solar heat.

Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

You might want to look at what he proposes too - might be the same as what you are seeing elsewhere. . .

I'm going to consder the same if and when I build a shop.

Jim
 
Hi Ned,
I have two solar heated shops, and thought you might be interested -- both pretty cheap DIY projects:

My garage shop has the main 16 ft wide door facing south. I built a set of glazed doors just outside the main rollup door. So, when you rollup the main door, the glazed doors act like a large passive solar collector. At night, you just lower the rollup door (which is insulated), and this eliminates the larger night time heat loss you would get through the glazed doors. I've done a lot of solar projects, and this one is my all time favorite -- it not only heats the shop really well in our -20F MT weather, but it also provides great lighting. Not sure if I'm allowed to include links, but if you go to the BuildItSolar site that is listed in one of the posts above, its listed in the Projects area under Space Heating, Passive.

The other shop is heated with a thermosyphon solar air heating collector. This collector covers most of the south wall of the shop and provides about 160 sqft of collector. The thermosyphon means that no fans or controller are required -- its a very simple carpentry project. It works well, and on sunny days will take the shop up to 65 even when its -20F outside. The only moving part on the whole collector are the backdraft dampers that are made with 2 cents worth of poly film.
The details are listed in the same area as the other collector.

In solar collectors, big is good -- if you want to make a sizable dent in your shop heating, you need a good sized collector to do it -- at least that's my 2 cents.

Gary
 
Gary,
your thermosiphon is Exactly the one I'm building, I went to build it solar and am going to do my entire south/eastern face wall (site requirements weren't good for me to do a true south face) My shop is 12'x20' with a 10' high side wall. I'm planning on that entire wall getting a thermosyphon arrangement. I'm also going to modify my two 3'x8' doors into thermosyphons, as you say every bit helps.

My goal is to have the shop tolerable this winter, It is a shop, and I've worked out there in 10* weather with just a kerosene heater running, though not for long. I'm hoping to get a lot more time out there this winter.

Just got home from some running around, and will be going out and starting on the two doors.



Links are encouraged, by the way, we like getting good information.

And last but not least, Welcome aboard!
 
Gary,
your thermosiphon is Exactly the one I'm building, I went to build it solar and am going to do my entire south/eastern face wall (site requirements weren't good for me to do a true south face) My shop is 12'x20' with a 10' high side wall. I'm planning on that entire wall getting a thermosyphon arrangement. I'm also going to modify my two 3'x8' doors into thermosyphons, as you say every bit helps.

My goal is to have the shop tolerable this winter, It is a shop, and I've worked out there in 10* weather with just a kerosene heater running, though not for long. I'm hoping to get a lot more time out there this winter.

Just got home from some running around, and will be going out and starting on the two doors.



Links are encouraged, by the way, we like getting good information.

And last but not least, Welcome aboard!


Hi Ned,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised on sunny and part sunny days. That's a good amount of collector area you are planning, and as long as your shop has some insulation it should be toasty on a sunny day. If it gets to be too much heat, you can always ventilate some, or block off some of the exit vents to regulate.

You can see how it goes, but you have enough collector area that it might be worth adding some thermal mass so that you get more heat retained overnight and into a next cloudy day. The area up near the exit vents from the collector runs very warm, and I've thought about trying to add some mass up in that area where it will get heated to a good high temperature, and then give off the heat after sunset.

If you find that the air tends to stratify (hotter up by the ceiling), a slow ceiling fan will mix it up without using much energy.

The thermosyphon is amazing to watch. It is completely self regulating. When there is a little sun, the air starts moving through the collector slowly, and the poly backdraft dampers on the top vents just open up a small amount to allow the flow. As more sun comes on, you automatically get more flow through the collector, and the backdraft dampers open all the way. As soon as the sun goes off the collector, and the flow starts to reverse, the backdraft dampers get sucked closed and the flow stops. Its much better control than you can get with a fan and thermostat.

I'd like to hear how your project comes.

Gary
 
Top