Help selecting Bandsaw, Jointer, Planer, and Table Saw

hi doug!
look for used equipment to stay within your budget, there are lots of shops going under in todays economy.
don't get in a hurry and if you're able, travel around to others shops and look at their equipment and talk to them about likes and dislikes.
 
First off, thanks everyone for the welcome and all the suggestions! Keep them coming :).

Here's some of what I currently have just to get it out of the way:
  • Dewalt Miter Saw & Stand
  • 2 1/4HP Plunge/Fixed Base Router (and table)
  • Orbital/Scrolling Jigsaw
  • 5" Random Orbit Sander
  • Ridgid 18V LiIon Set (6" Circular Saw, Drill/Driver, Reciprocating Saw, and Impact Driver)
  • #7 & #5 Stanley Planes (older models from eBay), and a Stanley low-angle block plane
  • Clamps, bar, pipe, C, etc. Still need more though...

So regarding table saws, is the SawStop really 3x the saw of the Grizzly that I listed (it's 3x the price)? I guess I'm asking what is it that makes it (or the Unisaw) so highly recommended (not including the SawStop's safety feature)? What types of furniture would I run into that require these features?

The S2S lumber from the local yard is surfaced on the wide sides, so I was assuming I needed a jointer. But then I saw the table-saw jig that can be used instead. Has anyone does this and had success? I also watched the video demonstrating surfacing wide board with a planer sled. Seemed like a bit of work at first to built it, but that it worked pretty well once you got the hang of it.

As far as using old tools go, I don't mind it if I know the tool was well cared for (which is sometimes hard to know), but there is definitely a part of me that can't get over not having a warranty :). Even if it is only a year or two.

For those that don't suggest a bandsaw, are you just not doing any resawing? Or is there another way to do this?

Wow, I can't keep up with the replies. Thanks again everyone for the suggestions. I'm trying not to rush into anything, but I would like to get something setup in the next few months.

-Doug
 
Douglas

The difference in buying used equipment is you pay less for more heavy duty equipment as in a used cabinet-saw vs a new contractors saw maybe for about the same cost or less & your the warranty lets face it eventually you will be anyway after the warranty runs out. With good used equipment wouldn't it be nice to throw in say a nice used drill-press for the cost that you saved say buying a used Jointer or Table-saw. I purchased all new when I started Craftsman table-saw, Jointer & Small bench-top Drill-press & Grizzly portable planer, DC, 14 Band-saw, combo-sander radial drill-press all purchased in about the first 5-7 years of woodworking. I have only the Jointer left of the Craftsman tools & all the Grizzly tools still in the shop.

I purchased a used Delta lathe & a Unisaw & a used 12" 1950's Craftsman Band-saw which my Dad is now using & I have another shop full of my Dad's used equipment RAS's Shaper's, Jointer, Planer, Drill-press, most of it is the older better quality Craftsman tools. I actually am tool poor with 2 of everything. Oh & 3 air compressors. Dad has one of them too. I really do need a bigger shop.
Dad's table-saw Jointer & 2 RAS & air compressor are in storage.
 
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With used you are trading low price for warranty.
Even at only $50.00, I hesitated buying my jointer. But, I noticed the base was well built by someone who knew what they were doing. I figured a chances were excellent that such a good craftsman would take care of his tools. I bought it and am comfortable knowing I got a good tool and good deal.
 
The only thing that makes the saw stop worth 3x is the fact that sewing a finger back on is going to be 20 times what any saw costs.
That being said I more likely than not will end up with a used PM66 for less than a grand.:thumb:Just waiting for one to come along that has not been in school for the past 20 years.:rofl::rofl::rofl: And not 3 phase.
And yes Frank I can and do mill logs into blanks on my table saw. That is until I got the bandsaw running yesterday.:thumb::thumb::rofl::rofl:
 
The only thing that makes the saw stop worth 3x is the fact that sewing a finger back on is going to be 20 times what any saw costs.
That being said I more likely than not will end up with a used PM66 for less than a grand.:thumb:Just waiting for one to come along that has not been in school for the past 20 years.:rofl::rofl::rofl: And not 3 phase.
And yes Frank I can and do mill logs into blanks on my table saw. That is until I got the bandsaw running yesterday.:thumb::thumb::rofl::rofl:

I said "I" wouldn't do it. With my TS, probably 'couldn't' do it. Bad enuf, with stuff much over 1" thick the lightweight thing slides across the shop floor rather than cut.:rolleyes:
I'd use it for a paperweight but it's probably not heavy enuf for that. ;)
 
i`m going to put woodworkin` equipment into automotive terms....

buying a yugo with a warranty is fine for the term of the warranty.....but buying an old powerwagon with power nothing held together with baling wire and bubblegum for slightly less money gives you a rock solid tried-n-true piece of equipment that can be kept going with baling wire and bubblegum.

in the last 30yrs woodworking equipment has been "value engineered" to hit price points.......even the sawstop is.

the older equipment was built to withstand generations of abuse and when repairs where necessary generally it was simple things like off the shelf bearings or a switch.

one additional benefit to "used" is that it will hold it's value.......unlike the yugo.;)
 
Douglas, I am going to side with many here but aint gonna quote any. I would like to share my story, most here have heard it and its peacemealed over the forum in different posts so here goes.

I started out without being a member of any forum. Not even looking at one. Yup i was independent and led by the nose of the magazines and buyers guides. Hey i am not ignorant of the web, just stubbornly independent.:eek:

So i set out to do things and having tired in life of always not having the right tool to do the job, yet having a schooling and father beat me into useing the right tool for the job, i had this darn built in programming that said i have to have all these tools before i can do woodworking. HOW WRONG I WAS AND WAS PROGRAMMED.

Yup you need a few basic things. I will grant that to anyone.

The first is a place where you will do it. That too became an issue with me and i spent big dollars on building my dream shop.

But I think you have the first most important tool that i have come across. Membership to a forum and its free.
Access to others who have the same interest and are willing to share their experiences and its free. And while I love our forum and family I aint suggesting its the only one but the guys here are pretty sensible, practical and decent so i find no need to stray to other sites.

That said,
Had i had the humility and intelect to do as you have done i would have spared myself much wasted dollars or at least used those dollars in other more valuable areas of my hobby. Now i aint stupid, i just had not stopped and given this serious thought until the guys here brought it up and to my attention.:thumb:

Before i go further, i have to clarify the space thing. I started out in my basement but in the back of my head i had already bought 2 books on building your own shop. Had i seen what some guys here do, and they produce 100 times more than me in projects, I would probably thought twice about my dreamshop. They proved to me that you can do a immense amount without all the "must have items" that we get hooked on having to have through excellent marketing and magazine tests.

So lets tackle some questions you might want to be asking yourself before you get into buying anything. These questions too are free.:D

What do you want to do in your hobby?

Dabble or build some furniture or redo your kitchen and fix your house or become an artist and design build and create great peaces one at a time like an artist would paint a picture.

There are skills and knowledge here that I find beyond words to describe. Years and years of being active woodworkers as either hobbiests or professionals.

So after listening to these guys through the posts here, what have these guys told me and others since i joined this forum over the time is the following.

1) Buy what you need to do the job. Just as you would in a business, dont buy a thing you have no need for to do what you want to do.

2) If you aint sure what you gonna do, do some basic courses first and deploy some of your money there and get the learning first hand from a pro teacher. There are too many names (i was going to list a few) of guys that have attended one or other workshop held by a pro and they have come away so enlightened and even more determined and enthusiastic about their hobby.

3) Learn some basic very important skills which are hard to get away from having to learn if you want to really enjoy this hobby.

a)One of these is the ability to sharpen tools.

Why i say this is years, literally years after having bought all my tools built my shop and got going, i came across a very valid point. Most tools and machines we use in woodworking have a cutting edge. Understanding it and understanding that regardless of whether a motor drives that cutting edge or your muscle power that edge needs to be sharp and presented correctly in order to its job will make an enormous difference to your enjoyment of this hobby.

b) By some good quality new or second hand, hand tools and play with them.

I doubt that there is a woodworker on this forum that don't have hand tools and by that i mean more than a hammer or nail. I refer here to chisels, a plane, a tennon saw or marking knife, etc. Even the spinny guys have lathe chisels and have learnt to sharpen them. Consider if you will initially getting familiar with these tools. Make the odd working project and dabble to get a feel for where you would like to go with the hobby. Learn to sharpen them and understand their use. How they are applied in a joint and how to make a joint using them. At the end of the day the power tools will really only do this faster and more efficiently in some cases, provided you understand how to use them as well.

Had i followed this thought process, I would have spent my money on some good quality hand tools. I would have bought some decent clamps. I would have built my workbench long long long ago and while still in the basement of my house learnt to use these tools and learnt the art or skill of sharpening along with the delight that goes with useing a sharp tool.
Then i would have known which part of woodworking i like determined that i would get satisfaction from it such that i would apply more of my hard earned dollars in that direction and would have sought the advice that has been given above.

Coming to the machines, i think there has been great advice given in each thread above. Certainly i would have bought a great deal more old tools. I aint snobbish I was just stupid. I paid more than i should have and in so many cases got cheap on certain things to my own detriment just come visit and see my clamps, lathe and other bits of what i would rather not be seen with or aggravated by. Having said that I did buy good machines for the most part. I try to buy with a view to buying once. I aint prepared for a hobby to be going out and upgrading just because its got a new gadget or feature unless i get to the valid stage where i have personally outgrown the machine. By that i mean i am at the woodworking ability to get the most out of that machine.

So before you spend your hard earned dollars take heed from the advice that you are given here and ask a million questions. Narrow it down and do like so many that have been wise in my opinion and ask about a specific machine and type and only when you are certain part with your dollars.

Draft a set of your criteria. Not mine. As an example some have chosen to develop a relationship with a local tool supplier. Others have said they have the ability to refurbish a machine and therefore buying second hand to them is no problem if the price is right. You have decide these things for yourself.

I am comfortable fixing my own so yeah if a warranty is used as an idication of reliability then for me it has some meaning. But i dont buy based on that alone.

One other big debate is power. If you have a space to do you work and it has 220V ability you will find it opens up choice in machinery as well.

Best of luck with the quest.:thumb:
 
Speaking as a guy who does this for a living, the one thing I see with most guys setting up shop is that they almost always overspend on their table saw. I don't have a cabinet saw and I don't need a cabinet saw. What I wish I had was a bigger band saw for resawing. The shop I did my apprenticeship at got by with just a cheap Jet contractor saw for about twelve years until they were given a PM 66. If I were you, I would spring for a bigger bandsaw, the 8" jointer, a good quality planer, and a good quality contractor table saw. I would try to come in as much under your $3000 as possible. Then I would spend the remainder on at least one extra router, router bits as needed, good quality band saw blades, clamps, sharpening supplies, and lumber and supplies to build workbenches and such. Also, the only reason I would go with the bigger jointer is the need for longer beds to edge joint longer boards. You're a lot more likely to need to edge joint long boards than face joint wide boards.

Here are my suggestions after taking a quick spin around Grizzlies website.
G0586 8" Jointer w/2 HP Motor- $719 shipped
G0513 17" Bandsaw - 2 HP -$944 shipped
T21853 SHOP FOX® 1-1/2 HP 10" Left Tilt Contractor Table Saw- $519 shipped

That makes a total of $2182 shipped without a planer which I would try to pick up locally to save shipping. Others have suggested the Dewalt 735 and it's a great planer. However it's price is pushing close to the range of the cast iron 15" planers. Since you can buy your lumber s2s you might hold off on a planer until you have the need for one. Otherwise, if I were you, I'd look for a planer in the $400 dollar range. That would leave you with a little money play around with to equip your shop with some other necessities and you would have a shop that is a little better equipped than mine is.
 
Rob, thanks for the great reply and suggestions!

Actually before, I started my collection of woodworking books, I purchased a book on sharpening knives and hand tools. I bought a few old Stanley bench planes off eBay to make myself learn how to sharpen and tune them properly. And I have a few 'test' chisels that I'll be practicing sharpening on as well.

I also purchased a few hand saws to start practicing with those as well. I plan to learn how to make as many joints as I can by hand first as well as surfacing several boards by hand to get an idea of what these machines are doing for me.

I'm actually looking forward to that quite a bit. I'm constantly amazed at what Bob Rozaieski can do with his hand tools on his podcasts, so I'm sure I'll be asking several more questions about hand tools before long.

One of the first things I'm looking forward to making is a decent workbench. So I ordered 2 books on those, and I have been reading everything I can on forums about workbenches.

I certainly am in no rush to get a project done, but I also didn't want to get frustrated trying to push a tool past its limits. This was why I was trying to get an idea of what limits I would run into with say a $1200 table saw vs a $3000 one. Or a 14" bandsaw vs an 18" one.

As far as what I'm looking to do, I'd mostly like to learn something new. I spend most of my day at a computer programming, and, without being too philosophical, I'd like to actually *make* something tangible that I'm proud of one of these days. Something a bit more exciting than a raised garden bed, that is.:)

As far as projects go, I'd like to eventually make some bookshelves, small end tables, cutting boards (Vaughn's were very cool), picture frames (I'm into photography as well), maybe a chair or two, and some small cabinets and built-ins for the shop and house. I doubt I'll ever feel confident enough to replace the cabinets in the kitchen (or convince the wife that I can), but who knows. We keep a few bee hives, so I'll probably be making several of those as well.

Thanks again for all the great advice everyone! And yes, I do plan on taking some classes as soon as possible.

-Doug
 
I have been woodworking regularly for over 40 years and had a production shop for 17 of them and have yet to have a jointer. Would I like one Yes but do I need one NO, But I will always have the best table saw I can aford to buy and when I can I will always upgrade to a better one. Started out with a Crapsman went to Delta contractor saw (never again) and had a PM66 in production shop (best saw yet) and now have a Delta Unisaw ( never again I hate this saw). I am going to take a hard look at the SawStop but leaning toward the Steel City.

Mainly dont short yourself on the table saw buy the best you can. You will never regret it but you will cuss the cheap one forever.

Jay
 
On the used equiptment masrket you can get a lot of industrial equiptment. A lot of it's 3 Phase but that is not realy a problem since 1Phase to 3 Phase converters are cheap. I've got an Olliver with the phase converter waiting for me to pick it up in California and the cost was great. It came out of a cabinate shop in california and the guy is giving it to me so he doesn't have to pay to store it anymore.
 
On the used equiptment masrket you can get a lot of industrial equiptment. A lot of it's 3 Phase but that is not realy a problem since 1Phase to 3 Phase converters are cheap. I've got an Olliver with the phase converter waiting for me to pick it up in California and the cost was great. It came out of a cabinate shop in california and the guy is giving it to me so he doesn't have to pay to store it anymore.

Not if I get to CA first:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
doug, Ive only been dealing with hardwoods for 2 years and started woodworking less than 4 years ago, so my knowledge about tools is very, very limited.
I can only say that if you go the older used tools route, please make sure you thoroughly check over or have someone else check over the tools you are going to buy used.
Professional tools in pro shops get tons and tons of use, and unless you can change any part or parts that need to be replaced, well, thats that.
I was buying alot of surfaced wood since I didnt own a jointer or planer, and used the table saw jig to get an straight edge, but I found wood is so much less expensive buying unsurfaced, that only being a concern if youre going to build alot. If your going to build 4 items a year, buying surfaced wood is a good way to go and save thousands on equipment for now, until you decide to build the new kitchen or refurnish your home.
whatever you decide, one other thing I can guarantee you, is that this place is a million years of experience combined, and youre getting top notch guidance and advice here, so use it. And welcome, looking foward to seeing some of your projects, and post up some pics of your new shop when you get things rolling.
 
Sorry for the hijack Douglas, but Don how about asking the Tour De Wood 2010 boys to add a U haul trailer to the camper once they get to CA and while in CA pick that saw up for you and bring it on over when they visit on the tour. Ya know they might as well make themselves useful and pay with labor for their meal. At the same time there are many hands to help load it at the pick up end and unload it at the delivery end.:thumb::D;)
 
Sorry for the hijack Douglas, but Don how about asking the Tour De Wood 2010 boys to add a U haul trailer to the camper once they get to CA and while in CA pick that saw up for you and bring it on over when they visit on the tour. Ya know they might as well make themselves useful and pay with labor for their meal. At the same time there are many hands to help load it at the pick up end and unload it at the delivery end.:thumb::D;)
Good Idea Rob except the Tour is comming here 1st then going to california. I'm thinking bout tagging along with em out there and bringing it back with me..:D:thumb:
 
Lot of opinions here, that is what he asked for and got. And, it is good.
I'm sure he will end up balancing the bits of various advice and make his choices right up to the $3,000.00 budget.
What has not been mentioned are the non-major tools that add up in an OH-MY-GOSH! :eek: hurry that can match, or exceed the big tools.
e.g. table saw blades, good 'uns $80.00 to $100.00 each; lathe tools up to, or exceeding $80.00, sharpening equipment and scores of small items that will send him to the BORG or catalogs on a daily basis.
The 3g is just the beginning.
 
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