Dust collector debate, questions

The "what" could be any number of things. Like the stupid thing that happened to me while still in Florida. The local newspaper learned of my success at the State Fair furniture exhibition and wanted to do an article in their Sunday "Neighbors" section. I agreed to the article and a few days later a reporter and photographer came to my house. We started in my garage shop and then sat around inside to chat a while. The article ran the following Sunday and I was on the front of the section. Here's the article.

A few months later, I got a letter from the County Tax Assessor stating that they needed a full inventory of my shop to determine how much I would have to pay in taxes. I was floored! After letting myself calm down a while, I called the tax office to see why they were coming after me. I had a good discussion with one of the tax office staffers. He told me his boss determined I should be taxed based on the equipment mentioned in the "Neighbors" article. I pointed out very firmly that the first word in the headline was "Hobbyist". When he pulled the file and saw that, he told me to ignore the letter and he would take care of his boss. I had no further problem with them.

Alan Bienlein said:

What has changed to make them think your a business? Talk to the inspectors to see if you can find out what has changed or the basis for you being declared a business.

Click to expand...

Ok, I'll try and address the questions asked...

I have a 1.5 hp Delta Dust Collector. 1000cfm sounds about right for the unit.

I put high efficiency 2 micron bags on it. I built my own filter top for a trash can to use to collect the shavings.

I do not have it 'plumbed' into the shop. I generally run a flex hose to the machine in question.

It works just fine on my planer, jointer, etc...

It does not seem to do a great job on my cabinet saw, as I still get quite a build up of sawdust in the bottom.

For sanding, I use a shop vac with a dust deputy, a hepa filter, and a filter bag.

From my research on putting the DC outside the shop, it's generally recommend that you would put it into either an interior closet, or ajacent to an exterior wall that can provide a way to return the air to the shop so that you do not lose any of the heating or cooling you may have generated in your shop. Most folks create an air return that uses filters to make sure even less fine dust enter the shop.

I don't have a ground wire in some of my flex hoses. I can defintely feel a build up of static in the hose. That being said, I've never heard any stories of a dust collector exploding due to static, but it makes sense to ground it just to avoid any potential issues.

I did have an experience once with my dust collector catching on fire that opened my eyes to the importance of having fire extinguishers. I used to have my DC wedged into a tight corner of my shop. I was on the other side of the shop planing some lumber, when I started to notice that it was getting hard to see in the shop. There was smoke coming from the corner where the DC was!

I had a remote switch for the DC. I clicked it but the DC continued to run! I quickly grabbed a fire extinguisher and ran to the corner and I could see that the motor was sparking and burning. I pulled the plug and shot it with the fire extinguisher. And that was that. Apparently the startup capactitor on the motor blew up and was causing all the problems. Nothing in the DC caught fire. I replaced the cap and still use that same DC to this day.

But I do things a bit differently. I make sure the DC is close to a door where I can wheel it outside rapidly. I also have 6 different fire extinguishers scattered all over my shop.

So, if you do put your DC in a closet, or compressor, or whatever, I'd recommend having a good hard wired smoke alarm in there with it.

Great response Brent! I have one question, do you think that it is the capacity of your dust collector that needs to be increased or are there modifications to your tablesaw that could be done to overcome your problems?

Well, its a grizz 1023 cabinet saw so it's enclosed pretty well. The DC does a good job of getting the dust from the blade, but it's a pretty big space in there, and some of the dust just seems to collect on the bottom.

I don't know if a bigger dc would work better on it. I do think if it really bothered me, I could probably craft a more steeply slanted false bottom that would direct the dust to the dc collection port.

Rob Keeble said:

They aint saying i cant have a dust collector, they saying with such a large one they perceive this to be headed to the dealing with large volumes of dust and therefore falling foul of the codes. When in essence my motivation was to move sufficient air (based on what i had read and understood) for all the safety reasons and the biggest one being my health.

Click to expand...

Who is "they" ??

I find myself mystified by this whole thread.
I have a "basic" single bag DC in my shop -- but it still is 2HP ! You've got a 3HP unit, you said? That isn't big by any stretch. All kinds of folks out there have put in 5HP units when they home-built Pentz Cyclones.
All kinds of hobby woodworker folks buy "big" DC units -- all the tool stores sell them.

Are we all in violation of code?

Sorry but I can't answer your original question -- I just don't know all the numbers. I know I've come across formulas somewhere that outline the "drop" in pressure you get for each foot of DC pipe. With formulas like that it should be fairly easy to demonstrate that a 1000cfm unit (for example) can only handle pipe that is __ feet long in order to have 400cfm at the tool.

Rob, much as I value Familywoodworking as a forum, this is one instance where I think you should maybe sign up with the canadianwoodworking.com forum and outline your situation there. On that forum you will find FAR more people who live in the Toronto area, who should hopefully be far more experienced in dealing with the local codes and permits and so on. I know guys there who have "pro" tools in their shop, and have big DCs in their shop and so on and so forth.

best wishes,
...art

i agree with ART on this whole heartedly Rob.. there are locals there that have got to have these troubles to deal with and know the ropes of what and where and why to do this,, as for the hooking it up generally yes this forum can help but not in canadain regs

I'm on the CWW forum, and in Toronto, and fairly conversant with dust collection issues ... but I've not heard of any hobby shop issues with local codes as far as the size of the DC goes.

I expect to be building/installing a cyclone separation system for the spice shop's flour mill and that will have to pass code for electrics and an inspection by the fire marshal. No plastic pipe and properly grounded.

I have a shop built Pentz cyclone and you're more than welcome to come and have a look at my installation.

Edit: Maybe you could come to the next Lunch in Leaside and meet a few CWW forumites. I'm sure Mack will be there.

Regarding the DC info, I have a "2" hp (yeah, right) Harbor Freight DC with a Wynn 0.5 micron pleated filter. I have no idea what the CFM is. I do know it's not enough to keep my shop dust-free. I doubt a 10 HP cyclone with 8" lines would keep my shop dust free. When you use compressed air to blow sanding dust off a piece in on the lathe, you DON'T catch all the dust at the source.

A few clips and questions:

Provided i aint perceived to be out in the shop more than twice per week, then i aint perceived to be doing much woodworking.

Click to expand...

What law limits you to two times a week in your own shop? If it’s to appease the NN, that's just crazy talk.

See the implication is that I bought a huge dust collector.

Click to expand...

Who’s implying that? NN? Authorities? You? Who’s assuming you bought it for business?

They aint saying i cant have a dust collector, they saying with such a large one they perceive this to be headed to the dealing with large volumes of dust and therefore falling foul of the codes.

Click to expand...

Who is “they”? And since when can "they" regulate your actions by their "perception" of what you might do with it in the future? They should prove you're doing it now, not that you're thinking about it in their perceived future.

And is there really a code that limits the size of a home hobby shop dust collector?

There is a lot of "implied" and "perceived" in your previous post. I'm not sure who's implying or perceiving, but I wouldn't make any decisions based on someone else's implied perception.

I agree with Art. Check with other woodworkers in your area and see what and how they've done.

Time to go to the mattresses, Rob!




From the movie "The Godfather":

CLEMENZA: That Sonny's runnin' wild. He's thinkin'a going to the mattresses already. We gotta find a spot over on the West Side

Rob,

If this sort of thing happened to me I would be at the appropriate person's office, politely and vigorously requesting them to spell out exactly how any of these "perceptions" pan out into real laws or regulations. I can't believe there is a statute that says you can only use your shop for two days of the week, or the size of a typical wheeled dust collector could actually be regulated for residential use. In Canada are you presumed guilty until found innocent? Does working in your shop sitting in a lawn chair and whittling a cane head count the same as running a table saw and the dust collector at the same time? Does getting a commercial washer/dryer or kitchen range equate running a laundry or restaurant in your home?

Per your description it seems that they are placing your neighbor's complaints ahead of the law in order not to have to deal with him.

I would also take your fellow countrymen's suggestions to talk to fellow woodworkers in your area to see if they have experiences about how to handle this. If you are lucky maybe they can recommend an attorney who would be familiar with these types of issues.

It might cost you a bit of money, but for me I would say enough and take this mess to the bloody end so you won't have to deal with it ever again. Your first order of attack should be determining your valid and legal rights to pursue your hobby. Then have an appropriate attorney send letters explaining these rights detailed with appropriate codes to your local "ministry" AND your neighbor telling them that if harassment continues you will seek immediate criminal and civil ($$$) redress for the abuse done to you.

Best of luck.

I feel for you.

Wood dust is worse in a small shop because there is less air volume, which raises the concentration of dust, especially the 0.5 to 2 micron size which your body cannot filter our. There is less air exchange because the doors are not open as often as a professional shop.

Bill Pentz website should be the backbone of your arguement. The code was definitely written by someone who does not understand wood dust and the health hazzards. Maybe if you took some of Bills' information to the people who control the codes, they might see some value to what you are trying to do and maybe even change the code (that might take years though).

I am a hobbyist and bought a 5 hp Clearvue cylcone to reduce the risk of health problems due to air borne wood dust.

I agree with the others that you should hire a lawyer and fight back. I hope things start to change in your favor.

I dont have NN, so I dont know what it is like. You always wonder why they have to ruin something for others.

How can a town/municipality use perception to make decisions?
One of my neigbhors rides this huge john deere lawnmower tractor, and has an entire backyard of vegetable gardens in season. Hes not a farmer, its his hobby.