Street Fair and Woodturners Stand

Last night I went to the street fair and came up on a guy that said he was as turner/sculptor. I saw he had several vessels that were fairly large in size and allowed me to pick one up to take a close look at it. I asked him a couple questions in a curious way.

First was why he cut out such a large plug in the bottom of the vessel (some 4" plus in size). He told me that it was the only way to control cracking at the center of the log. I told him there are other ways to control the cracking even with the pith in and that started a good conversation about his work.

Second was what he used for a finish - he said he coats them with linseed oil and then uses Varathane - usually a few coats and that completes the finish.

I only mentally critiqued his work because my stuff if far from perfect but I noticed a few things that I didnt like. The sanding was not that great and I could see the sanding lines if you look close in the light. His idea of a vessel is a poor one because while the outside looks like a nice vessel shape the inside was not hollowed out at all and therefore made the vessel very heavy. He had drilled a hole straight down and called it done. The finish had a few spots of what i would call aligatoring in the finish - like maybe he put it on to soon before the oil was dry but who knows. Prices ranged from $20-$85 depending on size which is not bad considering some of the short cuts i suppose.
The wood was myrtle and redwood that he used.

The interesting thing i saw was some hand carved bowls and were not done on the lathe at all but were unique and simply finished with some type of oil and left alone......the finish was like a satin. He told me about the tool he used which was the King Arthur Line of tools. I decided to look it up online and found the website at
www.katools.com
There are some videos on U-tube about it also and i thought if anyone was interested they could take a look................its a really nice tool for what it does................Dan

thanks Dan

Turning tool question an show an tell

Thanks for posting that site,as it is very interesting.I to love to look at other woodworkers work at these shows.

Thanks for posting the site Dan. Very interesting. I know what you mean about some of the work at craft shows. I did one in November. There were 3 other turners there. I checked out their work before I sat up. It is amazing how bad some of the work is and like you I am far from being a pro. But sanding lines on pens, bowls, and vases. How can you leave sanding lines on a pen. The finish on most had runs in it or they didn't put enough finish on and places on the wood was dry where it had soaked in more. One of the guys came down and talked for a minute. He said how are you selling so much and he says I haven't sold even a pen. I just didn't have the heart to tell him. I sold around $600 at that show and the other 3 combined I found out sold around $30 and the one guy didn't sell one item.

Worse yet is going into an up scale art gallery and picking up pens with tool marks in them.
I guess it's an art from not to finish sand the piece
But at the same time one must assume they are doing the job to the best of there ability.

Bernie Weishapl said:

I sold around $600 at that show and the other 3 combined I found out sold around $30 and the one guy didn't sell one item.

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Bernie the curve wrecker! It actually might have helped your sales for people to comparison shop the other guys and then to see the difference in quality of your product.

There are a lot of folks out there that lack 'self-awareness', or the ability to know what they don't know. I've dealt with a lot of that in the technology world and it never ceases to amaze me.

I don't ever profess to be an expert in any one thing. As a typical JOAT, I do like to think that I can see the difference in quality between my work and the pro's, and make no bones about it.

You are right Brent. Like I said I may not be the pro turner but I would not put some of the stuff they had up for sale. I have stuff in my shop right now that will never see the light of day because to me it is not good enough to be sold or displayed.

You wonder if it is that some people dont take pride in their work or if they are just not a student of turning and finishing. I couldnt drag myself to a show to try to sell something if I didnt feel it was good. I wouldnt want to even show anyone, unless it was a mentor who could show me what I was doing wrong.

In this case, it sounds like they just didn't care or know any better.

Bernie.............and others - I agree and had to respond with this

I bought some Ca Buckeye and shouldn't have because i usually do not buy the wood i turn (its just a hobby). The wood was so punky that most of it was not usable and I paid about $120 with shipping so probably $80 worth of wood.............Anyway here is what I do with what I turn

Sale Pieces - I have for sale the pieces that I consider perfect in form and finish

Give Away - Has blemishes or errors in form or finish or experimental pc's I played with dyes or whatever.

The Famous "Hummmm Pile" - A few pc's that I have not decided what to do with them - Can I save them ? Can I enhance the cracks to make it look interesting instead of a turning with a crack in it ? experiment later on with them perhaps? practice some new dye techniques or colors maybe? One example is the small buckeye because the hole in it after turning was almost perfectly round and just didnt look right - I opened it up and completed the finish - bumped up to the Sale pc's now....LOL and still I have others that end up in the next category......

Designer Firewood Pile - after cussing and a project gone bad this is where they end up

I sell all my stuff at work and it goes really fast but im not asking alot for the pc's really - $10 - $75.00 and most in the $20-$35 range..... I don't want to bring them back home ................and use the money to buy more supplies or new tools etc......kinda like a game - what I sell I use to buy more stuff......LOL
I think im going to buy another Supernova which is on sale at Woodcraft right now.............guess I better turn some more to raise the money hugh ?
LOL...............its all in fun...............thanks Dan

Chuck Thoits said:

Worse yet is going into an up scale art gallery and picking up pens with tool marks in them.
I guess it's an art from not to finish sand the piece
But at the same time one must assume they are doing the job to the best of there ability.

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Yes, craft shows can be an eye opener. You will see a range from the worst possible to some very fine art.
On pens, those cursed sanding rings separate those who care from hacks. I spend more time, on many pens, sanding than any other step. And, I still do not achieve the brilliant finish that many others do. And, I'm sure it has nothing to do with my stubborn refusal to use glue as a finish.

I know what your saying Frank It seems as though sanding takes longer than all the rest of the process put together.
But in this gallery only the best of the best can be on display and they must pass the jury to get in. The pen in question did not have sanding rings it clearly had not been sanded at all. I'm guessing that, that is where the *art* of the pen came into play the guy is so good at turning pens he does not even need to sand

Interesting conversation. I think this works out to simple economics. At some point those turners will either improve so they begin to sell something or they will be forced to stop doing shows due to inability to sell.

I haven't done a show yet and am hesitant to do so until I feel the items I have can stand on their own. Hopefully I get there.

John

John Dixon said:

Interesting conversation. I think this works out to simple economics. At some point those turners will either improve so they begin to sell something or they will be forced to stop doing shows due to inability to sell.

I haven't done a show yet and am hesitant to do so until I feel the items I have can stand on their own. Hopefully I get there.

John

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John
I don't do many shows but each is a learning experience. It is probably good I have some retail background. Dealing with the public can be frustrating. And some of the things you learn you would/could never discover on your own. Fer instance. The first show where I tried selling primarily duck and game calls was, from a sales standpoint, a flop. But, I learned one important thing that helped me sell calls after that. Guys were picking my calls and looking at them. But most just set them down and walked off without even looking at the prices or trying them. Finally, in the afternoon, one guy came by and looked over several very carefully like he was interested. Then he set them down and looked at me, quite angrily, and almost shouted, "They ain't signed".
I very intelligently responded, "What?". This time he did shout, "They ain't signed, nobody ain't gonna want 'em not signed." When he quieted down, we talked some and he explained that most guys who buy duck calls are either collectors or caller-collectors and they want their calls signed by the maker. Next day I took a bunch to the laser engraver shop and had my signature put on them. Raised prices $5.00 to cover the engraving and they started selling. Who'd a thunk it?

Yep interesting conversation - I do not turn enough to put together a show or anything like that as of yet. I would like to give it a try sometime but for now making them and selling them at work has been working out ok.
I am constantly trying different ways to finish my projects and probably like alot of turners trying to find one that is a fantastic finish.
Usually, like others have said im probably my own worst critique and can see the flaws that others possibly don't see. I just enjoy turning and finishing and sometimes it all comes together and you end up with some nice pc's

The other thing that really seems to come into play is that most consumers these days choose their purchases purely on form and price. Quality only seems to be recognized at the point where something doesn't work, falls apart, or it is just plain time to throw away. While I have done art & craft shows, I've spent most of my life providing quality products that definitely weren't the cheapest.

There are a few things I've found that help people decide to part with more dollars for a quality product. The first and most important is to help the customer learn the difference in quality. In the case of the pens, I'd put out a standard $5 pen and one of the higher quality ones to highlight the differences and use that as a conversation starter. Have magnifying glasses handy to help them identify the shortcuts taken on the $5 pen and the refinement of the $100 pen. Just realized this is exactly what the jewelry business does and they turn a relatively worthless rock into a gem simply through marketing. People really do chase after the most shiny object especially when they can brag to everyone why it's better than the rest.

Frank Fusco said:

John
I don't do many shows but each is a learning experience. It is probably good I have some retail background. Dealing with the public can be frustrating. And some of the things you learn you would/could never discover on your own. Fer instance. The first show where I tried selling primarily duck and game calls was, from a sales standpoint, a flop. But, I learned one important thing that helped me sell calls after that. Guys were picking my calls and looking at them. But most just set them down and walked off without even looking at the prices or trying them. Finally, in the afternoon, one guy came by and looked over several very carefully like he was interested. Then he set them down and looked at me, quite angrily, and almost shouted, "They ain't signed".
I very intelligently responded, "What?". This time he did shout, "They ain't signed, nobody ain't gonna want 'em not signed." When he quieted down, we talked some and he explained that most guys who buy duck calls are either collectors or caller-collectors and they want their calls signed by the maker. Next day I took a bunch to the laser engraver shop and had my signature put on them. Raised prices $5.00 to cover the engraving and they started selling. Who'd a thunk it?

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That was my first experience at selling duck calls too... they want them signed.

Following up on Frank's and Chuck's comments is that when I put my turnings for display/sale at the Art Gallery the director told me most people wanted them signed which I did except they wanted something to say made in Kansas. So I had a branding iron made with the state of Kansas and in the middle it says made in Kansas by with my name. You wouldn't believe the difference in sales. The first couple of years I was there I sold maybe around $500 to $600 worth of turnings in a year. Last year after I started using the iron on the bottoms of my turnings I sold around $3400 for the whole year with around $1800 of that during Christmas. Cost me around $150 for the iron but sure did make a difference.

I have not done any shows as of yet. But do you also see those kind of things in a juried show. Do they make a few to get excepted and then don't care after that?
Dennis

Dennis Kranz said:

I have not done any shows as of yet. But do you also see those kind of things in a juried show. Do they make a few to get excepted and then don't care after that?
Dennis

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A lot of the so called "juried" shows, the only requirement is that your vendor fee check clears.
We have a group in my parts that you have to pay a $150.00 fee to go before the jury. Last I knew almost every one fails the first time. All are excepted after the second time they pay the fee.
It was in their prestigious shop that I saw the pen. Oh and a table you could shim the joints with a cat. But at least they only wanted $1,200.00 for it.
One of the shows they put on has a 1,200 dollar vendor fee for a 2 week run plus 40% of your sales. The up side is the people that shop at it drop a lot of money at the show. And never really look at what they are buying because of where they are buying it.

Chuck Thoits said:

The up side is the people that shop at it drop a lot of money at the show. And never really look at what they are buying because of where they are buying it.

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Sounds like my favorite comment to my wife..... "If you have to ask what it costs, you can't afford it anyway".