Hardwood Floor - two questions on transitions

Art Mulder

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London, Ontario
Hey Folks,

Just looking for some ideas from folks out there on their hardwood floor experiences. I have two specific questions.

I'm planning a small hardwood flooring job in the house, filling in the hallway with 3/4" prefinished hardwood (not laminate or engineered, real 3/4" oak) flooring. A few years ago I installed the same floor in the LR and DR, so I am experienced in laying floor.

Here is a rough diagram of the area in question.
front-hall.jpg

First question - where the hardwood meets the wood transition strip at the tile. The hardwood is running lengthwise down the left-hand hallway, and will be cut on the angle where it meets the vinyl tile, and a wood transition strip will be installed there.

Now, since the floor is cut on the angle, there will obviously not be a tongue or groove on the end where it meets the transition. Is that Okay? I suppose that I could first install the floor, then route a groove in the ends of the flooring and then put in a spline before installing the transition strip. But I wonder if that is just going overboard. If the floor is all stapled down firmly right to the ends, is there any need to do that? I suppose if I don't there will be a tiny gap between the floor and the transition strip, unless I'm excruciatingly careful**

Second Question - transitions in doorways. Down the right-hand hallway, the hardwood floor will end at two doorways, one to the mudroom, and one to the powder room.

I could end the hardwood flush with the doorway, or should I extend the hardwood into the doorway, such that the transition strip is flush with the inside (linoleum side) of these doorways? Is it just preference, or is there a recommended way to do that?

Here's an expanded sketch to go with that second question:
front-hall2.jpg
...art
 
Hi Art,

I would not do the miter transition going into the stairs. I'd forgo the tile(?) all together. If the tile must remain, then I'd let the wood floor go straight to the wall.

These are the kind of style decisions that can affect the re-saleability of your house. If you have a Realtor friend you might ask. Now, I am well aware that you did not mention selling your house, but stuff happens and life goes on. Floors are expensive items to change and take time. To have to do it when you do not plan to is more than a major inconvenience, and that is why I brought up the saleability factor.

And frankly, my suggestion is also my preference. ;)

As to the transition piece; pretend a door were there and place the transition so that it would be directly under the door. Pretend the flooring on the other side of the door could not be be seen when the door is closed.
 
Hi Art,

I would not do the miter transition going into the stairs. I'd forgo the tile(?) all together. If the tile must remain, then I'd let the wood floor go straight to the wall.

Carol, you're speaking with an Arizona bias, I think...;)

This is Ontario, and wood floor in the entryway around here is, IMHO, a poor choice. You need a tile or vinyl (or some other water-resistant flooring) entry by doors.
Wood will not last.

We already see that in the family room, where we enter/exit the back yard through a sliding door. The wood is taking a beating there, and probably needs refinishing.
 
You have a point about the tile at the exterior door. My bad. Did not take the exterior door issue into consideration. But I still wouldn't do the miter. My bias - not necessarily Arizonan, but most definitely female!

Don, I hate to measure snow in feet. Inches are bad enough. And the norm. We had more than the usual amount of snow this winter, but it came in 6" amounts. Of course one week those 6" increments added up to 2 feet!
 
I still wouldn't do the miter. My bias - not necessarily Arizonan, but most definitely female!

The sketch is just that -- even though sketchup makes it look good. It is NOT measured or to scale. The angled piece will, I think, look smaller and less imposing in real life than in this diagram. The angled piece will be about 48" long, and will not bisect the corridor intersection.

The general consensus on another forum is that "splines are nice but not necessary" and, like Carol said, have the transitions "right under the door". (ie: so when the door is closed the other flooring is hopefully not visible from either side.)
 
im not from arizona and i am not a lady, but i dont like the angled transition either art.. to me it looks like a mistake and a cover up..i know the snow and wet area if this is in frt of your frt door then you need to have your vinly there and square it off somewhere else.
 
I too, have tile just inside my front door. And just to have the tile the width of door puts dirty feet on the carpet right quick. Next year I hope to get new carpet and the tile area will need to expand.

When two or more people come in Art's door, they will step to the side, not up the stairs, until they are all in the door. Even one person steps to the side to avoid opening the door a full 90 degrees, especially if it is cold outside.

To keep the dirty feet on the tile, run it to the wall perpendicular to the door.
 
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Art,
If it were me I'd just continue the wood all the way to the wall and have the just entrance tile. Just follow the line of the stairs parrallel to the stairs.

im not from arizona and i am not a lady, but i dont like the angled transition either art.. to me it looks like a mistake and a cover up..i know the snow and wet area if this is in frt of your frt door then you need to have your vinly there and square it off somewhere else.

Wow, there is a lot of angle hate here... ;):rofl:

I'll try to remember to snap a photo tonight of the actual area. I think the roughness of the sketch, or more correctly the incompleteness of the sketch, is putting you off.

Carol is right - you do need a place to stand inside the door.
The door is directly lined up with the stairs. To the left of the door is the Living Room (already done in hardwood). The door hinges are on the right, it swings over that area that I have left in tile. This is the back of the powder room. There are two chairs and a small boot-mat backing up against the powder room wall.

Running the the hardwood straight out -- continuing from beside the stairs -- would give us a section of tile about 36" wide, by 60" long, leading from the stairs directly to the door. That would look silly, and not be very useful.

We did consider just framing a rectangular section for tile, but the above-mentioned chair+bootmat seems to make that a bit silly.
 
That's the entrance, at the lower right in the drawing? Bring the tile all the way to it, and has been pointed out extend the tile on the lockset side of the door so folks can not only step inside onto tile, but also have a place to remove their muddies & put 'em on tile. The angle thing just doesn't work visually - you really need a rectangular tile/wood transistion.

In doorways, make the transition directly under the door, just like a threshold. It may be a full-width shallow threshold, extending from casing to casing, and still look right.
 
Art back to your question. No need for a spline on the angle. You can put one if it makes you feel good.:thumb: If I where to do that I would make a tongue on the transition strip and set up a router to slot the end of each piece of flooring before I put it down. As for the location of where to break I always go flush with the door to the inside of it. So when in the tiled room with the door closed the wood of the door and the floor all end in the same place. When in the room with the wood. When the door is closed you can not see any tile.
It's your house you put that transition strip any way you want.:thumb:
If the next people don't like it they can feel free to change it. As of right now they are not paying the mortgage you are.:thumb::rofl::rofl:
 
It's your house you put that transition strip any way you want.:thumb:
If the next people don't like it they can feel free to change it. As of right now they are not paying the mortgage you are.:thumb::rofl::rofl:

Thanks, Chuck. I think if people see the actual space, they might be more inclined to agree with my wife and my decision...

IMG_4014.jpg IMG_4015b.jpg

... in the second photo I drew in a line showing the angle that we plan to install.

As you can see, extending the hardwood from alongside the stair would actually impact the door frame, as they don't quite line up. Going out into a point (squaring it off) would look a bit weird also, I think.

Now, laying it all out and then cutting an artistic curve might be kind of interesting, but also quite challenging to finish. So I think we'll stick with our simple angled transition.

And yes, I know that the exisiting vinyl floor is ugly. It's probably 25 yrs old. And we'll probably replace the front entry area with ceramic tile at some point, but there are other things higher up the priority list!

ttfn,
...art
 
Pictures tell 1000 words...
IMG_4223.jpg
IMG_4224.jpg
IMG_4225.jpg

Busy couple of days! That 100sqft of hall with all the bends and corners and door openings took as long as 400sqft of wide open LR+DR two years ago!!!

People ask how it is with the kids underfoot. And yeah they can be a pain at times, but having kids paw through the boards looking for "the perfect fit" meant that I ended up with maybe less than 1 cubic foot of waste at the end, (nowhere near the recommended 10-15% that we are warned about) and one of the boxes of boards we left sealed and that is going back to the Borg! :thumb:
 
Art,
I hear ya on the waste thing. Whenever I do a hardwood install, I usually figure about 10% for waste. I almost always end up with very little waste and quite a bit left over. I don't know if it's just me or what but that's just the way it works out. Maybe a lot of guys just grab a new piece and cut from that when installing. But when I need a cut piece, I look around through the "scrap" pile and usually find a piece that will work. Actually when I'm cutting pieces, I only pitch very small pieces that are obviously too small for use. When the piece left is of usable size, it goes on the work area and I use pieces from there before going back to the box for a new piece.

Last fall I installed about 500 s.f. of solid 3/4 Bamboo for a customer. I figured the 10% waste factor and the material was ordered. When it came in I picked it up and took it to the job site to acclimate for a few days before installing it. In the interim, the customer decided that they wanted to do the flooring on a 45 degree angle. I told him it would require a little more time to do the job but as long as that was OK with him I'd do it that way. But I also warned him that there was going to be more waste that way and the 10% might not cover waste that it would create. If I got near the end of the job and we needed more, it would have to be ordered and I'd finish the job when it came in and acclimated. To my surprise, we STILL had a couple boxes left! I couldn't believe it. This was a condo and I did the dining room, living room, hall way, and foyer. It was a fairly small condo but personally I think the extra work of doing it on a 45 was WELL worth it. It looked beautiful and the customer LOVED it. Believe me, with all of the corners, doorways, and such it was no piece of cake to accomplish but it was a floor I was pretty proud of.

John
 
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