Welding

Allen Grimes

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I have little (very little) experience with welding and one of my clients wants me to weld the hinges to his doors to the metal door frames.

This is a common practice here so I was thinking that it might be a good idea to buy my own machine instead of borrowing from my cousin. So I was wondering what would be a good machine to get for small jobs. And also more importantly I would like it to be a little easier to use than what I am using now.

Right now I am using a machine that is basicly 2 car jumper cables and a sparkler. I dont know how else to describe it. 1 cable clamps to the work and the other holds the sparkler. It is a PITA to use.

Is there any hope?
 
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What you have is a stick welder.
You probably need a portable wire welder.

[Never heard of welding hinges to the door frames:huh: ]
 
Allen,

What type of metal are the hinges and door frame? If they are just plane old iorn or steel you can use something like this. These types of units are very easy to use. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200318739_200318739

If they are stainless steel or some other material that requires a sheilding gas you will have to go for a more complete welder.

Stick welders are very difficult to use unless you weld all of the time, especially if you want it to look good as well as getting a good weld.

I hope that links are acceptable here. I guess that I should read the rules again.

Allen
 
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Wire feed welder with either flux core wire or inert gas sheilding (not as good for outdoor work, wind will disrupt the sheilding and give you a really bad weld). Kinda like a hot glue gun for metal. Lincoln, Hobart, and Miller all make relatively inexpensive models. Look for a higher duty cycle if you want a better unit, and spring for a nice big extension cord if you need one (like about 14 to 12 awg), less voltage drop means a better weld.
 
Thanks for asking this question, Allen. I've been thinking about the possibility of a small welder myself. (I could find several handy uses for a glue gun for metal.) ;)

I know zippo about welding. My experience is limited to running about a foot of bead 30 years ago with a stick welder and a couple inches of bead with a portable wire welder a couple years ago. I didn't know you could use a flux core wire. So does that do away with the need for gas in a portable wire welder?

...
I hope that links are acceptable here. I guess that I should read the rules again.

Allen

For the record, links here are fine. If you have a commercial interest in the site you link to and don't make it clear, you're probably gonna get a talking to, but links to other sites are OK.
 
Well, I'm not a weldor, but I do use my welder a lot.

For what you are talking about, I guess a 110V-120V system (household current) would be fine, and the machine that Allen points out is a good one, with one small caveat, it does not look like it can be set up for a gas bottle.

I have the Hobart Handler #175, this has been replaced by the #200, but it is basically the same machine. Mine runs on 220V-240V. It will do everything the 110V units will do, and much more, I can, with some bevel grinding, weld 1/2" thick plate, not as well as a cranked up stick welder, but I can do it. For me, this is a better set up, but I do not plan to take it anywhere and do any welding, if I was going to make it portable, I'd get a 110V unit.

Flux core wire Vs gas shielded wire.

As someone mentioned, you don't need a gas bottle to weld with flux core wire, it has flux in the wire, (the core of the wire is flux) and as the wire is zapped, this flux burns off, making it's own shielding gas. I works well, but is messy compared to using just mild steel wire with a sheilding gas. Also, as John mentioned, the flux core works much better outside, as even a little wind can blow the shielding gas away from you weld, which is no fun.

My set up, with a gas bottle, well actually two bottles, can also run the flux core wire. If you buy a machine that is only flux core, you will not be able to go to gas shielding. Some machines come with the ability to expand to shielded gas welding, this takes requires you buy a gas bottle (or lease it) and a regulator for the bottle.

Why go gas shielding?

Well, I can weld steel, stainless steel, aluminum, and even titanium if I want to :D

The Handler 125 comes ready to weld Flux Core, and can be upgraded to weld MIG (with the convertion kit)

Here is a factory reconditioned unit for $260 Hobart Handler 125 <-link

If you are doing this really really part time, I'd still suggest you stay away from the really cheap units, they work, but they will frustrate you more than anything. I've found that I have used my welder way more than I had every dreamed I would, I think that once you have one, and you see that is really is like a hot glue gun for mild steel (and boy is it) you will find a lot of uses for it, and the MIG (with the shielding gas) is just so much nicer, almost zero splater to clean up and while the Flux Core is way cleaner than the old sticks welding it does require cleaning between running beads, where as the MIG set up does not.

Being able to weld stainless is REALLY nice too, I don't do it much but boy is it nice when I have to, for this I use the CO2 + Argon mix, they recomend a tri-mix of CO2+Argon+Helium, but I did not want to buy a third bottle. I use the Argon for welding Aluminum, that is nice to be able to do as well (I don't know if the Handler 125 does Aluminum..?)
 
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Same here....great welder for my uses. I used a stick welder as a kid growing up on the farm and I thought that was easy to use...but not nearly as easy as my wire feed welder.

I knew you were a smart guy, but this just reconfirms it :D

I have a stick welder, I've not used it since I got the MIG, I think I should sell the darn thing.....:rolleyes:

Cheers!
 
allen, i`ve got the hobart 135.....next size down from stu and steve`s....about 70# with a full roll of wire and runs off 110v...if your hinges and jamb are ferrous then just welding one screw hole would suffice for security....tod
 
My first welder (25 years ago) was a Miller 225amp stick welder. Unlike a lot of them that have switched current levels, this one used a variable transformer that was controlled by a crank - It's still in use and is as solid as the day it was bought .... can't weld sheet metal with it.

My second welder was (is) a Canox "Sparkler", also made by Miller. It's a wire feed, gas shielded 100 amp with a "push the wire" system (the most common). I've had it 15 years and it was 10+ years old when I bought it. It's still going strong and you CAN weld sheet metal with it. The specs say it's good for 3/16" penetration, but the duty cycle gets pretty short (10%).

In between (being a tool repair guy in my working life), I've tried the flux-core, wire feed welders and yes ..... they work ...... but there's a lot of spatter and the welds are nowhere near as solid as a gas shield system. I find that when you grind back a flux core weld, the weld is full of pinholes. But, if that's what the budget will bear and you use them for hobby type stuff they're fine, but for a few bucks extra, your welds can be really solid and pretty to boot.

just my $0.02 CDN ($0.017US)

cheers eh?
 
I used one of those little 'buzz box' welders once. Emphasize 'ONCE'. Wuthluss. Whatever your choice, get something that will do something.

I have one of "those little buzz Box" welder and you'd be suprised what it can do. I have welded with biger stick welder and many differant wire feed welders. for what little welding I do as much as I'd like a wire feed I just can justify the cost. If I were doing Alum or anything besides mild steel then I'd definitly get a wire feed. If all I planned on doeing was welding a hindge to a steel gate and if the hindge is steel the 'buzz box' will do fine.
 
I have one of "those little buzz Box" welder and you'd be suprised what it can do. I have welded with biger stick welder and many differant wire feed welders. for what little welding I do as much as I'd like a wire feed I just can justify the cost. If I were doing Alum or anything besides mild steel then I'd definitly get a wire feed. If all I planned on doeing was welding a hindge to a steel gate and if the hindge is steel the 'buzz box' will do fine.

Don, it is not that a Buzz box won't do this particular job, cause it will, it is just that once you have the "hot glue gun for metal" it makes working with steel so much easier, that you find yourself doing stuff you would have NEVER done if you only had a buzz box, IMHO. :D

Cheers!
 
Thans guys, that was a little more info than I was expecting (thats a good thing btw).

I think that what I am going to do is get a 110v model for now since I do need portability, but you guys convinced me that I also need the 220v model. Actually Stu, you had me at stainless steel.

Seriously though a lot of my designs incorperate metals so I was always planning on getting a welder, but I havent jumped on it because of my experience with stick welders. But now I feel more confident so thanks again.

But I do have 3 more questions now.

1) Whats a "buzz box"?

2) Can anybody recommend a good entry plasma cutter system?

3) My neighbor was telling me about a welders mask that is clear when not in use but darkens the second you start welding. Does anybody have any info about it? Is it even safe? Sounds too good to be true.
 
3) My neighbor was telling me about a welders mask that is clear when not in use but darkens the second you start welding. Does anybody have any info about it? Is it even safe? Sounds too good to be true.

They are called Auto-Darkening helments and here is a whole page of them. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatDsp?storeId=6970&N=114+763291&Ne=2
I use one when I weld and think that they are teriffic. Are they safe? I say that they are as they have to meet safety standards. I am sure that someone will come along and say that they are not but they have been in use quite a while and if they were not I am sure that they would be off of the market by now. Sure beats getting flashed in the eye with no shield when trying to position the rod in difficult situations.
 
1) Whats a "buzz box"?

2) Can anybody recommend a good entry plasma cutter system?

3) My neighbor was telling me about a welders mask that is clear when not in use but darkens the second you start welding. Does anybody have any info about it? Is it even safe? Sounds too good to be true.

A buzzz box is what your using now..

The welding masks that auto darkens are great, I got one and wouldn't be without one. Whats nice about em is you can see where your placing the electrode but the instant you stike an arc it goes dark. There available at just about any place that sells welders.
 
...

3) My neighbor was telling me about a welders mask that is clear when not in use but darkens the second you start welding. Does anybody have any info about it? Is it even safe? Sounds too good to be true.


Allen,

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been investigating/reading about welding, since I'll be trying my hand at it soon. I've never had a welder of any sort in my hand before, so I have a lot to learn!

Here's what one of the books I've read has to say about those electronic helmets:

They really do work, but there are drawbacks. If you strike a new arc 50 or so times in a day, your eyes will itch at the end of the day if you were using an electronic helmet. That is because the fraction of a second that it takes the lens to darken from #2 to #10 or #12 allows ultraviolet light to strike your eyes. The effect is cumulative. It adds up by the end of the day. The time lag for darkening is noticeable.

Good luck...
- Marty -
 
Allen,

Thanks for starting this thread. I've been investigating/reading about welding, since I'll be trying my hand at it soon. I've never had a welder of any sort in my hand before, so I have a lot to learn!

Here's what one of the books I've read has to say about those electronic helmets:

They really do work, but there are drawbacks. If you strike a new arc 50 or so times in a day, your eyes will itch at the end of the day if you were using an electronic helmet. That is because the fraction of a second that it takes the lens to darken from #2 to #10 or #12 allows ultraviolet light to strike your eyes. The effect is cumulative. It adds up by the end of the day. The time lag for darkening is noticeable.

Good luck...
- Marty -


I am not a professional production welder so my comments in an above previous post considering it safe are from my perspective as a part time welder. It would be interesting to hear from a full time production type welder on this subject. Or for that mater someone that deals with welding safety on a professional basis. Anyone here in either one of these categories?

I wonder if the cumulative effect is damaging the eye or just uncomfortable.
 
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1) Whats a "buzz box"?
AC welders make a buzzing noise in use. MIG uses a different power supply.


3) My neighbor was telling me about a welders mask that is clear when not in use but darkens the second you start welding. Does anybody have any info about it? Is it even safe? Sounds too good to be true.
They work, they’re safe. They are as useful as training wheels on a child’s first bike. Save your money for something you will need for a long time.;)
 
Marty, not to start something here, but when was that book written?

The thing with the auto darkening helmet (ADH) is you get what you pay for, a cheap unit is not as fast as a good unit, they also need to be charged up, so to speak, if you leave them down in a Dungeon for about 6 months, under a tarp, and go to use them, they don't work so well DAMHIKT :rolleyes:
But an hour in direct sunlight cures this for sure.

When using an ADH you should also where a good pair of safety glasses that are a #2 or so for welding (sunglasses don't cut it). I understand the whole "Cumulative" effect thing, but if you have done any welding with a normal helmet, they you will have flashed yourself a few times, you do the weldor's nod, to drop the helmet, and for whatever reason the darn thing don't drop, "ZAP" :eek: Just the one whoops is WAY more than you get with a day's work and an ADH, WAY WAY more! The other thing that most of us have done with the normal helmets is to flip up the dark lens, leaving on the the clear lens in place to say do some grinding, then pull the helmet up, get ready for some more welding and forget to close the dark lens......... then, the weldor's nod..........ZAP......... :eek:

With a good ADH these kinds of mistakes are just about completely gone.

If you get a ADH, get one with an adjustable darkness knob on it, some metals (like shinny stainless) are just brighter to weld, and sometimes when you are grinding, the sparks from the grinder set off the ADH, which is a pain, so the knob on the helmet helps with that.

You also need a good pair of gloves, they need to be thick , as welded metal is HOT, but they need to fit well, and be soft enough that you hands are not fighting them, or your hands WILL start to ache.

You need to wear good clothes for this, my favorite is COTTON coveralls, and a good respirator that fits under the helmet. Add to that, boots that are leather, and get the little strip of leather that goes over the laces of the boots, as a blob of glowing, molten steel dripping off your work, and falling on you boot is no big deal, but when that blob of molten steel stops and sits in the web of your laces, and you notice it when it burns through the tounge of your boot and your sock, then you will do a whole new dance, as you race across the workshop to the toilet to stuff you whole booted foot into the bowl of water........... again, DAMHIKT :D

Welding is a really really useful skill to have, with modern MIG welders it is not a hard thing to learn, but as with anything, the right tools and the right equipment etc make it much more fun and a heck of a lot safer.

The best thing a guy can do is try to take a course at a local community collage, the often have them in the evenings and you will get to do it all, gas, mig and sticks, well worth the time and small amount of money it takes.

If you can't do that, then buy locally from a good welding supply house, (btw, they often have refurbished units they take on trade in that are good deals), when you buy from them ask them to include a good hour of instruction with a weldor who knows what they are doing, that little bit of hands on, with an instructor can save you a lot of time and trouble.

More than maybe you wanted to know, but man I like welding, when I looks at stuff made from steel, I can confidently say "I could make that" :D

Cheers!
 
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