Flatwork help and advice sought

Well with peace prevailing on my NN border i am now happy and able to start up the jointer, plane and other machines and get back at it.

So over the weekend ( Don i did not post in the Friday thread cause i did not want to jinx my chances) I got some time to get back at it.

Working on the Wood Magazine Jewelry chest I started way back when. Well at that time i had taken some of the MI chocolate that you know who gave me and cut and milled it to close to size ready for further processing.

Now having cut a great piece and bookmatched it as close as i ever will achieve, i ended up with the piece being too thin for the project specs. Should be 1/2 inch slab and i got less than 1/4.

I so badly want to do this door with the bookmatched piece that i cut and glued up a slab to laminate the bookmatched piece to.

I have not as yet planned the bookmatch piece post glue up,need some advise on how to do it. Then i have in mind to glue it to the slab after i have planned the slab post glue up.

My problem is like i have seen posted here before but live in eternal hope that my case is different, i have a resulting bow in my bookmatch glued up piece.

I tried clamping it to the slab as can be seen, to attempt to train it back to normal but no luck. I have taken shots of the end grain of both to show you what i am up against and would like to keep the momentum on this project. With your advise on the way forward i will do just that so please fire away.

By the way after laminating the two together i will plane the slab down to about the same thickness as the bookmatch. The two together need to be just over 1/2 inch.

Ooops i nearly forgot here are my list of questions

1) How do i go about planning the underside of this bowed panel for glue up to the slab with it being bowed and so thin. ( I have dewalt 735)
2) How should i go about laminating this panel to the slab. Glue type, clamping method.
3) When all glued up if i plane the underside of the slab to 1/4 inch how do you think this will affect the overall "new panel" Will the two bow against each other which is what i am hoping and offset the forces at play in the wood?


Thanks all for any and all suggestions.

While you at it throw in your thoughts on finishing to be able to get the best from the grain on the bookmatch.

Rob not in any particular order, here are some possibilities-

Can you add moisture to the concave side of the bookmatched piece, let it sit and flatten? Then glue to a flat substrate.

Or place it concave side up on your bench and flatten the rising edges with a hand plane. The glue to a flat substrate. Then plane to thickness.

Flatten the substrate but keep it more than 1/4" thick, to remain stable, glue the bookmatched panel, then thin the bookmatched side down to a bit more than veneer thickness.

I don't know if the edges will show - if they do forget this idea - but if not, glue the bookmatch to a piece of 1/4" baltic birch, then cover the other side of the bb with veneer, then plane to thickness.

Will the panel including the bookmatch go into a frame? If so, perhaps the frame will flatten it.

Good luck, and don't be discouraged. It's the solving of problems in wwing and life that leads to progress and greater skill.

Another alternative is to thin out the show wood. That way, it won't have enough strength to bend the substrate. Also, your substrate will be thicker and therefore stronger.

I'd glue it with regular PVA glue. Ideally, you'd put a piece of plastic over the show wood and then a piece of thick MDF as a caul to press it.

Mike

Thanks Ken and Mike.

Do you guys think if i placed the show wood on a piece of mdf with carpet tape and sent it through the planner it would do? I need to get the non show side smooth then I wil glue it to the glued up board with the show side up and then do as you have suggested Mike and plane it thinner.

After which I can flip the base board over and think the whole assembly out to the correct size. This will make the "substrate" thicker and the show piece thinner. Just wondering how that will affect the bookmatch grain effect because the change from one side to the other is quiet dramatic. Dont want to loose it after all this effort.

where is this show piece going rob? is there rails and stiles for it to go in? like ken mentioned. and if the substrate wont show then that will keep it flay with some glue and clamping pressure. as for finish, 2 cts lacquer sealer and then 3 cts straight lacquer. then rub by hand with some comet to get it baby bottom smooth.

Well the design has rails and stiles but and here is the big but, the show piece is cut back from the edge by 1/4 inch.

See the problem is it should all have been one piece with a rabet down the side and the bottom edge fitting into the rail and stile. But my piece of chocolate was not thick enough to do bookmatch and have left over more than half an inch to plane smooth.

So i am laminating the "show" piece and i think if i understand Mike correctly by thining out the "show piece once i have it attached to its substrate piece I will be ok. I did not think of doing that. The thinner i get the show piece the less the mechanical bending lift will be. I will hope that gluing with such a large surface will hold it down well.

Will have to think on the finish you suggested is it available in rattle cans? I aint looked yet.

If you thin out the show wood after you glue it to the substrate, you'll affect the bookmatch. The best thing to do, if you're able, is to thin it from the non-show face, then glue it to the substrate.

When you do a bookmatch, you want the wood as close to what was sawn as possible - just sand the saw marks off. If you take too much off the show face, the grain will no longer match together.

Mike

havnt seen rattle cans for lacquer sealer, but you can get shellac sealer and do the same thing, then use rattle cans on the final coat.

Thanks Mike that whats i was worried about. Will give it a go from the non show side by sticking it with carpet tape to a piece of either mdf or bb.

Thanks Larry, yup i seen the shellac sealer in rattle can. What do i put over the top. Wipe on satin poly Boy its amazing stuff that. Since i put some on my pratice bowls i just cant seem to stop. But i been using the shiny one and its too plastic looking.

Rob, I'm concerned that running that thin piece thru a planer holding it to MDF with carpet tape is risky, that the piece may come loose and self destruct in the planer. Might be better to flatten the non-show side with a hand plane, then glue it to substrate. Just $.02 from a guy who has destroyed a lot of nice thin pieces running them thru a planer.

Thanks Ken thats exactly what i wanted to hear. I did the same to some thin strips hence me asking how to get a piece this thin flat.

Guess i will give it a go with my jointer plane. Its quiet a bit that i want to take off given Mikes suggestion. I am thinking taking off like about 1/8 inch so the overall piece would be down to 1/8 inch.

Rob if you have use of a drum sander that's the way to go. if not then i'd go with ken's way.

Well sorry Stephen missed you post but dont have a drum sander anyhow. Thanks for the idea though.

Now big thanks to you all because i managed to get this panel exactly like i want it.

Mike and Ken you saved mybacon. Made the show panel thinner and then laminated to the base.

Have just come from the shop after planing down the base so that the whole panel is the correct thickness for the design.

Will take pictures later.

Only thing is next time i use veneer. I can see why Mike. Even though i got the show panel down to a tad over 1/8 it still has incredible force.

After planing the whole assembly to the correct thickness this thin show panel still manages to exert force on the base (which is now thinner) and bow it.

Just amazes me the forces in wood.

I hope the frame will manage to train this panel into being straight. The whole front panel gets a rebate around the edges to take it 1/4 inch. Then the frame has a 1/4 inch groove in the rail and stiles. So it will be held across the top where the bow is appearing.

Mr. Larry you gotta teach that wood of yours not to bow.

Mike thanks for the heads up on not going wild on the bookmatch face. I can see what you meant just with the sanding i have done.

Put some acertone on the front to see the grain and boy if i can get to finish this correctly the panel will pop unbelievable.

I am pretty excited.

Thanks for the help guys, was listening and thinking of all you said while working at it this morning.

Hey Rob next time you do veneer work make sure you have a similar thickness veneer to glue to the back side to balance the sheet and sticker it for a day or two till it cures to keep it flat.

Thanks Allan i can see now how that would have helped. Did not think about it due to me putting this "veneer for want of a better word" down on one side of hard wood.

This is a great learning experience. You only learn by trying is what i say, i just gotta learn to do the asking upfront rather than when i aint got to many places to go. Kinda short circuits the help line.