tool showroom rant

Chris Mire

Member
Messages
945
Location
Southern Louisiana
i have been asking alot of questions about tools and tool purchases lately because i am on the verge of going full time. this tool purchasing has proven more difficult than i thought it would be. one of the things that bothers me the most about it is the lack of places to see the tools properly set up and in an enviroment that allows me to really have a look at them and speak with some one who knows anything about the tools. let's rewind to saturday morning.

i walk into a local contractor supply store, well it's actually an hour away, i have chosen this place because they carry steel city tools and i am interested in a few of their tools and i want to see them up close. so after i look around for awhile and see none i ask about them. the guy says they are out back, so we take a walk. we walk into a room that is about 12x30 tops. and is packed full if tools. to name a few.....2 delta table saws, 1 PM 2000, 1 Steelcity TS, 2 drill presses, 2 shapers, 2 drum sanders, and about 4 or 5 other machines. my first impression is that they don't really want to sell me anything because they don't even have a nice place setup. so we walk to the SC TS, tucked in a corner, it has parts and pieces from about 5 different machines on top. the guy says, "here ya go, this is their left tilt saw, we haven't had any complaints on these, normally we get complaints about the other brands" and walks away.

so i look at the saw and realize the blade is in 45 degree position, and is tilted to the right...hmmmmm....yes it was a right tilt saw. so i move all the junk out of my way so that i can see the thing. i play with the fence and it feels like it has sand caught in it somewhere. now i doubt seriously that the steel city fence really feels this way and that was part of my aggravation.
i just don't understand why i can't have a nice place to go to and look over a tools i'm about to spend over a grand on.

i realize they have tool shows for this reason, but i need to buy something now.

sorry i just needed to get that off my chest. is it like this everywhere or is it just the cajuns down here?!?

calming down now
chris
 
Chris,

Your frustration is shared by many of us as we want to see, feel and play with our tools before we buy. This same scenario applies to many different markets and is just a glimpse at the attitude of "the customer is an idiot and he will buy anything" or just that customer service has gone to the dogs (no offense to the dogs). However, there are some stores, such as Woodcraft that do attempt to demonstrate their offerings and speak to the qualities. OK, I am done as well.
 
chris, welcome to the world of shopping for shop tools:eek: ......most dealers cannot afford to set up displays for large tools......there`s just no money in `em.....my friend who runs the supply house in missouri stopped carrying stationary equipment alltogether....`cause folks would come in pick the guys brains and go buy from the net....or the borg....most ma-n-pop opperations buy so little in the scheme of things that if they`re real lucky they might see 10-15% return on their money......over the course of a year....kinda hard to stay in business that way.......it`s my understanding that steel-city has tried to make selling-n-servicing their equipment profitable for the dealers? but only time will tell.....the best bet is to drive to others shops and spend time talking to the folks using the equipment.....at least that way you can try out stuff that`s been broken in......tod
 
joe,

i agree woodcraft does attempt to have their stuff set up nice. unfortunately for me the closest one i know of is in mobile, al.
glad to know it's not just me.

tod,
that makes sense. i guess i never thought of it that way. chalk another one up to our bottom line mentality this world revolves around. there is supposed to be another machinery dealer about 45 min away and i plan to give them a look before i do anything. supposedly their showroom is nicely set up. i guess we'll see.

thanks again
chris
 
I don't buy new tools much. But I was in Redmond Machine in Atlanta (I know, it's a long haul for you) to buy some old parts a couple of weeks ago. First time there and I walked in and I was so disappointed! Here was this huge showroom crammed full of new machines and supplies.

Then if found the dirty warehouse where the good stuff was kept. :D

I did stroll down and look at a few new machines. He had an amazing selection to look at. If someone was really wanting to spend some money this would be the place to go and look. I was really surprised as the selection on display.
 
Hey Chris, here in Japan, if you are lucky, REAL lucky there is a picture in the catalouge.......and I'm not kidding.

Anything larger than a SCMS, you NEVER see in a showroom, or at least I've never seen one anywhere, in living here going on 17 years.

I do understand your frustrations, for sure.

If you are interested in the Steel City stuff, I'd call them, tell them what you want a look at, and ask them to introduce you to customers of said tool in the area.

Just a thought.

Good luck with the quest. :wave:
 
[size=+1]Two (at least) really good places here in Ohio:

Hartville Hardware - my absolute favorite place to go tool shopping. Even the wife thinks it's neat!; and,

WoodWerks in Columbus.

Both have a large display of numerous brands, out in brightly lit show rooms, and with very knowledgeable sales personnel. Both are great places to shop for tools.[/size]
 
Same here in my part of NC. Woodcraft carries a few stationary tools, not many, and no real heavy cast iron. Klingspor carries a small amount of cast iron, but again, very limited.

Used to be a place in Raleigh called Tarheel filings that did carry a large variety. Sadly, they are almost gone.
 
Chris,

We have a WoodCraft and Rockler about 40 minutes away. They have a fair collection of tools, but are pretty complete in all the things they carry.

I recently bought a Steel City Tools drill press and motiser from Sumner Woodworker Store, about an hour away. Sumner is a small town south of Seattle, and the store has a real country feeling to it. The store was started by the managers Mom! They have a very complete selection of all their power tools on the floor, grouped together by type. You can compare various makes/models in one area.

They also assemble each large power tool for the customer, so you know it is complete, aligned, and works properly. (I had to dissamble my floor drill press so it would fit in my little car...:doh:..)

They have coffee on all day long, and woodworking sales people that seem pretty knowledgable. This was my first visit/purchase at Sumner, but I plan on going back.

http://www.sumnerwoodworkerstore.com/PAGES/services.htm
 
That is one of the true benefits of a place like FW. I like to get my hands on tools before I get them or commit to them also, but that isn't always possible. I really value word of mouth (or, in this case, word of forum). I would much prefer to ask others opinion that have used the tools.

Good luck in your quest!
 
this is one thing that really gets my goat about shoppin` for equipment.....say a guy is lookin` for a bandsaw....and he want`s to compare the griz, jet, delta, p/m, mm, laguna, and aggazini.....how can he do that other than dealing with folks who may or may not feel the need to justify their own purchases? or for instance how `bout sliders......anybody know of a showroom anywhere that a fellow can look at martin,altendorf, felder, scmi, rojek, minimax, knapp, p/m and griz....all side by side.......iwf is as close as you can come, with all the bells-n-whistles and 7 miles between vendors distracting you......even after years in the business i got so distracted walking between booths that i`d forget what i was lookin` for.....maybe the whole purpose of internet forums is to get other folks opinions on equipment? but then ya` gotta try and figure who`s a shill, who`s trying to justify their own purchases and whether or not the guy giving advice is comming from the same venue that you are.....i don`t see it getting any easier either.....with more and more local distributors closing their doors it`s a crap-shoot with your wallet:eek: .......tod
 
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I'm kind of lucky. There's a place about 10 mins away called Performance Tool that started out as sort of an independent Harbor Freight - all cheap import stuff - but over the last 10 years or so has expanded twice. Now on the way home from work the other day I noticed they've moved across the street in a MUCH bigger stand-alone building instead of the 3 side-by-side units in a strip mall they'd grown to. I haven't been in the new place yet but ever since they started expanding in the old place they keep adding more equipment lines. Powermatic, Delta, Jet, Performax, Bessey, Freud, CMT, I forget what else. It used to be if I needed an accesory (belt, blade, attachment, etc) for a tool I owned, I either had to mail-order or do an hour drive. Now I can usually run in there and get what I need. I'm thinking of stopping in there Saturday morning for a look see. It sure looks like they've got a big enough building now to house even more stuff. I'm not shopping for anything - I sure dont have any room for another machine anyway - but it's nice to look.
 
An advantage of living in a major city (their have to be some advantages) is that I can see just about every woodworking machine that is sold in Canada set up and close by –no more than a half an hour drive away to any of several retailers.

Unfortunately, they are almost never set up so that you can actually use them –that sure would be a nice service.
 
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I think that a retailer who fails to properly display their wares is setting themselves up to lose sales. I understand there's little profit margin on stationary tools and that dealers often don''t want to dedicate the floor space to the low profit items. I think that is their mistake. There is a local tool seller that has an interesting collection of stationary tools. I wouldn't buy a machine from them however because the tools aren't assembled properly or are missing parts. As a customer, how do I know if the machine is poorly assembled or came out of the factory that way? (Actually I think I can tell but I would imagine not everyone can.)

I spent a long time selling cameras and running camera stores. Cameras are another of those low margin items. Ten dollars on a $280 camera was pretty good. As a photo retailer we knew we couldn't sell cameras and have a 30% margin. that was a given. The profit was in the film and processing, batteries, cases, picture frames, etc. The cameras were only the vehicle to get the customer into the store. If you sold them a camera and made them happy, chances were good they'd be back for the stuff we made money on.

I think that is the thinking that a woodworking store needs to use. I'm sure that Woodcraft and Rockler operate that way. They don't make a lot on the machines either but they dedicate the space and hope that if you buy a machine from them, you'll also buy blades, router bits, clamps and other things that are profitable.

The thing about people pumping for information and then going off to buy from amazon or someplace is a very real issue. I ran into that frequently. I would spend time with a shopper to help them decide on the right camera for their needs and sometimes they would go buy elsewhere. That was simply the risk you have to take. I made sure that my customers knew that if they bought a camera from me, they could come to me any time for help. They didn't get that treatment however if they sucked information and then bought elsewhere.

I think salespeople still need to work hard to give excellent customer servce. It may not always reward them with a sale but more often than not, I think it will. I would venture to guess everyone reading this would be willing to spend a little more buying locally if the place they went to had knowledgeable help and would actually take the time to talk with you about the equipment you are considering.

Unfortunately that seems to be a rare thing these days. The nearest Woodcraft won't get my business because of the poor treatment I got a number of years ago over a tablesaw purchase. I have learned from experience that I can't expect good customer servcie there or at the local tool seller. Since that is the case, I don't have any problem ordering online.

Oops. Looks like I got up on a soapbox. Sorry. I'll step down now. :eek:
 
Tod asked ..
"anybody know of a showroom anywhere that a fellow can look at martin,altendorf, felder, scmi, rojek, minimax, knapp, p/m and griz....all side by side....."

Well Tod, all I can say is - who could look at all that in one place and not drool? The showroom would be Rust City in no time at all.:rofl:

It is frustrating, though. Even going to the shows, you see someone demoing on a tricked-out super tuned piece of equipment that sure won't be like the one they ship me. :bang:

I like the idea of visiting someone who owns that shiny new tool that caught your eye and learning how it works in real life.

Anybody in the Albuquerque area own a Festool router? :wave:
 
I too would love to "kick the tires" before I buy. Unfortunately that won't happen in my little town.

One idea I and the LOML have discussed is in a couple of years when we move back to Florida is to open a woodworking/tool shop.

Basically have a small office up front and a well equipped workshop in back where customers can actually use the tools. To me, that's "kicking the tires".

Also, when it isn't busy, I can use the equipment to make my own woodworking projects.

Only thing I have to do is convince a line to work with me on this.

Could be a silly idea, but for now it is my dream.

Matt, that's a great idea. Unfortunately in this litigious society we live in, your insurance company probably wouldn't cover something like that:eek:
 
I asked an old friend who ran one of the old "Woodworkers Clubs" that Woodcraft bought out (and shut down mostly). You could buy time in the shop and use their big iron. He said the insurance was his biggest single cost, more than rent, utilities, etc.

BTW, the 'waiver' doesn't do much. They are still liable, but having you sign a waiver proves that they applied due diligence and warned you of risks.
 
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