Question on size of Dust collection System

Dom DiCara

Member
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My shop is about 30 by 20. Stationary tools include:

Drill Press
Table saw
Router table
Miter saw
Radial Arm saw
Jointer/planer
Drum Sander
Wrap around belt sander
Scroll Saw

The LOML is worried about how the dust is going to effect me. (God Love her!)

I haven't decided whether to build my own or buy a Jet or a Grizzly. Anyone have a thought as to what Horsepower I should be looking at? Or a brand you favor over another?

Still in the design/thought process, but I want to strike while the wife is in a good mood.......as it where!:)

Thanks in advance
 
I wouldn't do less than a 3 hp with 6" feeder lines dropping down to 4" at the tool blastgate. I know that sounds big but with my experience of setting them up I wouldn't consider anything less. I have a 3hp on 6" feeders set up with 4" on the blast gates and it is taking care of a lot more machinery than you have stated but mine is open at the discharge dumping into a pile outside the shop. If you bag it all it really holds things back.
 
I wouldn't do less than a 3 hp with 6" feeder lines dropping down to 4" at the tool blastgate. I know that sounds big but with my experience of setting them up I wouldn't consider anything less. I have a 3hp on 6" feeders set up with 4" on the blast gates and it is taking care of a lot more machinery than you have stated but mine is open at the discharge dumping into a pile outside the shop. If you bag it all it really holds things back.

Thanks Jim
 
Dom,
Bill Pentz is a expert on dust collection in shops and has a lot of great info on designing DC system for the home shop. Here is a Link to his web site

Thanks Don.....I have been reading his stuff. He really loves the 5HP motor....I think that might be a little overkill. The man has REALLY researched this subject thoroughly.
 
Thanks Don.....I have been reading his stuff. He really loves the 5HP motor....I think that might be a little overkill. The man has REALLY researched this subject thoroughly.
It is not overkill, it is what is needed, with the right sized impeller. The stuff your wife is worried about is the super small stuff that floats on the air, this is the stuff that gets stuck in your lungs, never to come out again. The stuff you clean up with a dustpan, that stuff is not going to hurt you.

I'd go one further than what Jim is saying and I'd do 6" right to each machine, if you can manage it. If you are returning the air to the shop, then you really want a cyclone, if you live where you can send it outside like Jim does, well that simplifies a few things for sure :D
 
Check out my thread on building a cyclone.http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14343
I originally built the 18" diameter cyclone but found the airflow with 2 blastgates open just barely good enough. I'm using a 16" impeller with the 5 hp motor. With 3 blastgates open my system draws 18 amps. I can also run my system with no filters or ductwork connected and not have to worry about exceeding the current limits of the motor.I have a 8" main duct with 6" branch lines to the machines. Alot of these sysyems are choked down or the tell you not to run them with out ductwork and filters connected to be able to use the smaller 2 and 3 hp motors.

I have since built a new 20" diameter cyclone to get more airflow. What a difference!:eek: I can run with three blast gates open now problem and thats with 6" ductwork to all my machines. I modified all my machines to accept the 6" ducts. The airflow is so strong that I always have to have 2 blastgates open otherwise it will suck my flex connections flat.

People think that horsepower isn't important but it is. Impeller size is more important but you need the horsepower to drive it without having to choke the airflow down to keep the motor from burning up. Thats why Bill recommends the 5 hp motor.
 
It is not overkill, it is what is needed, with the right sized impeller. The stuff your wife is worried about is the super small stuff that floats on the air, this is the stuff that gets stuck in your lungs, never to come out again. The stuff you clean up with a dustpan, that stuff is not going to hurt you.

I'd go one further than what Jim is saying and I'd do 6" right to each machine, if you can manage it. If you are returning the air to the shop, then you really want a cyclone, if you live where you can send it outside like Jim does, well that simplifies a few things for sure :D

understood and very good advice
 
Check out my thread on building a cyclone.http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14343
I originally built the 18" diameter cyclone but found the airflow with 2 blastgates open just barely good enough. I'm using a 16" impeller with the 5 hp motor. With 3 blastgates open my system draws 18 amps. I can also run my system with no filters or ductwork connected and not have to worry about exceeding the current limits of the motor.I have a 8" main duct with 6" branch lines to the machines. Alot of these sysyems are choked down or the tell you not to run them with out ductwork and filters connected to be able to use the smaller 2 and 3 hp motors.

I have since built a new 20" diameter cyclone to get more airflow. What a difference!:eek: I can run with three blast gates open now problem and thats with 6" ductwork to all my machines. I modified all my machines to accept the 6" ducts. The airflow is so strong that I always have to have 2 blastgates open otherwise it will suck my flex connections flat.

People think that horsepower isn't important but it is. Impeller size is more important but you need the horsepower to drive it without having to choke the airflow down to keep the motor from burning up. Thats why Bill recommends the 5 hp motor.

Alan
Did you use the same moter and impeller on the larger unit?....And is it the motor and impeller that Bill is selling on his site?
 
Dom I have the 2 hp Grizzly and it works great for all my tools and then some. I might use two tools at the same time but most of the time the gates are closed on the ones not in use. Also an air filter system that does 800cfm min and a cartridge dust mask.
 
Hi,

My experience:

I have a 2hp double bagger with 1 micron filter. The one micron filter was not needed as I ended up building an addition to the garage/shop (the cars only see it from outside of the doors). The addition is completely separate from the garage; not even a door between. Therefore 2 or even 3 micron bag would have been adequate and less costly and let air flow faster.
The addition is 8’ x 18’ and houses the DC, air compressor and storage for not frequently used items. We call it the “Outhouse.”

I ran 6 inch ducts all of the way. I used two 45* els for each right angle turn. Each right angle turn is close to the end of the run. None were permitted at the Collector End of the system. Other turns are 45*. On most pieces of equipment I drop down out of the 6 inch run with a 45 el or a 6 inch pass through with a 6 inch 45* drop. Then I pick up with 4 inch flex (in most cases). The 4 inch flex is short enough that it pulls straight when the DC is running. The woodturning lathe has 6 inch most of the way down and finishes with 4 inch hard pipe...until I get to the 2 ½ inch semi-flex right at the lathe. The semi-flex moves to the most convenient spot depending on what I am doing.

I have some old photos which I will include. There have been improvements...especially at the lathe.

Downside: No dust pick up yet on top of the TS.
Bandsaw dust is mostly picked-up. However, needs improvement below the table.
4 x 36 belt sander is close to the 12 inch disc sander pick-up, however has no direct pick-up yet.
The jointer is plumbed. However, it does not have a proper enclosure for DC as yet.

I wish I had more HP for the wood lathe. I still get a lot of chips. The visible fine stuff seems to vanish into the duct ends fairly well...definitely not perfect. I do have a room air cleaner above and just off of the tail of the lathe and it is a big help. I also have cross ventilation which helps.

Upside: The 2 hp DC does a good job (visually and smell of sawdust) every place not mentioned above. Obviously this is a project that is continually improving. Originally all ducting from the 6 inch duct was 4 inch flex. The first time I fired it up it picked up my safety glasses and ate them. They were about 18 inches from the open end of the flex.

The solid ducting is S and D schedule 35. This is way overkill on the PVC. I feel confident that lighter material would be every bit as satisfactory. I don’t know how much less expensive it be however.

I WOULD NOT CONSIDER GOING LESS THAN 3 HP IF I WERE STARTING OVER!
I am very glad that I opted for 6 inch ducting runs.
I am very glad that I do not have any abrupt turns in the ducting.

My DC ducts stay clean. Whenever I do a revamp and open the system I am impressed by the duct cleanliness. Once the air is pulled up, the ducting runs slightly downhill until exiting the shop. Then it drops vertically and goes into the DC intake.

I do wear an N-95 facemask, I also wear prescription safety glasses, I frequently wear a face shield over the safety glasses, I have earplugs for sound at every machine, and, in addition, I have two sets of quality headset ear protectors.

Besides the regular DC I also have a dedicated ShopVac that comes on whenever the router is turned on. This definitely works better than the DC system alone for the router.

I have learned a lot. I would do many things differently if starting over.
I would:
Go three hp or more.
I would keep my 6 inch main DC lines.
I would keep my double 45* els for each ducting turn and drops.
I would (and will) use more solid pipe for the verticals.
I would keep all of the ducting on a slight downhill slope from the far end as it goes towards the DC unit.
I would keep the darn thing in an outside building or shed or whatever. It is too loud for inside the shop.
I would keep the air cleaner.
I would keep a vacuum to work with the router in addition to the regular DC.
I really have no complaints with the double-bagger dust collector. However, I would very seriously consider a cyclone.
DO NOT GO FOR PRETTY. Run the ducts in the most efficient manner for air travel.
I did not and would not in the future seal any of my ducting joints. The friction fit works fine. Sure as heck you are going to make changes as you purchase new toys, learn new techniques and/or get interested in another aspect of woodworking.
 
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+1 on Stu's observation that if you plan to vent the air back into the shop like I do, you want a cyclone. I went with a 2HP Griz G0440. I would have gotten a 3HP if I could have physically fit it in the shop. I almost went with a "lean-to" on an outside wall to house the cyclone but, views from the street and common courtesy to my neighbor on that side made it undesirable.

7" entrance to the blower, drops to a 6" main and 4" for the last short hop to the machines. The last modification brought the 6" main closer to most tools before dropping to 4". The next mod will probably include 6" right to the machines. I work alone and only have so much shop. If I am going to actually make something in the shop I have to spread out my "getting ready" activities and salt in some actual building of projects. But, I'll get there ;-)
 
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Alan
Did you use the same moter and impeller on the larger unit?....And is it the motor and impeller that Bill is selling on his site?

I bout the 16" impeller from clearvue cyclones which is back in business again and the motor from the electric motor warehouse. You can get both from clearvue but it was cheaper buying the motor directly from the source. I'm not sure if it's the same impeller from Bill's website.

It's the same motor and blower housing from the smaller cyclone.
 
wow...thanks for all of the responses.....I think a 3hp cyclone is what I need. I need to hit the books and plot out the Ductwork before I make any purchases though.

Again...thanks to all!
 
Ok Dom I am going to vote American.:D Check out these guys. i bought from them. Have yet to hook mine up but i did do a ton of research before i bought and i believe in supporting specialist companies like them.

http://www.oneida-air.com/

They also have several new machines, some that now make it possible to have a mobile machine but with real good characteristics. These guys only do dust collection. Right down to balanced and cast fan blades.
 
Ok Dom I am going to vote American.:D Check out these guys. i bought from them. Have yet to hook mine up but i did do a ton of research before i bought and i believe in supporting specialist companies like them.

http://www.oneida-air.com/

They also have several new machines, some that now make it possible to have a mobile machine but with real good characteristics. These guys only do dust collection. Right down to balanced and cast fan blades.

Thanks Rob
 
You can go to a local plumbing supplier and get some spiral ducting. I was regulated to the 2 hp from Grizzly too due to height restrictions. It was the only one that fit and it was on sale when I picked it up so I recieved an unexpected extra bonus. :thumb:
 
You can go to a local plumbing supplier and get some spiral ducting. I was regulated to the 2 hp from Grizzly too due to height restrictions. It was the only one that fit and it was on sale when I picked it up so I recieved an unexpected extra bonus. :thumb:

Drew

I have worked with Spiral Duct before during HVAC installs. IT always gave a push to the air movement. Do you think it would make a huge difference in air flow versus PVC? I have to try to balance cost and functionality.

Thanks
 
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