Al killian

Member
Messages
1,940
Location
Floydada, Tx
I have never made cabinet doors with glass in them. I am now getting ready to make some and thinking temperd glass would be a nobrainer. For those who make cabinets, what do you use?
 
I've used tempered glass if the doors were in a lower cabinet and regular glass if in something like a wall cabinet. To me anything that is 36" or less in height and has glass doors should be using tempered glass.
 
Hi Al,
Generally, non-tempered, (annealed), glass is used in cabinet dooors as doesn't normally have to resist impacts or support heavy loads. And once glass is tempered, it can't be re-cut or have edgework done or holes drilled in it. Also, cost is at least 75% more.

Cheers,
Brian, (Cynthia White's husband and recovering commercial glass company owner).
 
Hi,

When I put display cabinets in my optical shop I used tempered glass. However, the hinges, catches, etc. were mounted directly to the glass. Yes the cost was more.

Tempered glass was used back in the "Good Old Days" (Good old days is the synonym for bad memory). Glasses were considered unsafe if a lens had a chip or even a minor scratch. Tests showed that scratched tempered glass spectacle lenses would break easier than non-tempered lenses.

None of the cabinets in my home, or any previous home, had tempered glass.

I know that didn't tell you much, but my two-cents worth isn't worth much today.

Enjoy,

Jim
 
Hey Brian, welcome to the family.

I have to interject some info to contradict your saying that "once glass is tempered, it can't be re-cut or have edgework done or holes drilled in it."

When I was in the Kustom car business, we had to cut tempered glass sidelites and backlites to fit a chopped (lowered) roofline. Our method was to mask our cut line, perhaps 1/8" wide with a rubber sheet masking, and sandblast the line. Blasting fairly slowly so there was not much heat created, and the job was done.

I even blasted tempered glass wirh designs of varying depths for 3D looks. (Haven't done that in a while though)

Sorry for the hijack.

Aloha, Tony
 
This has been an informative read. Thanks all. I learned something. Let's see, in the responce department, Brian-welcome to the family and thanks for the information. Good to see you hanging out again Al, Toni-have had some kids do the sandblast thing making designs, pictures and such on their car windows and on drinking glasses. Never thought about using it to create a "cut" line.
 
Hi Al,
Generally, non-tempered, (annealed), glass is used in cabinet dooors as doesn't normally have to resist impacts or support heavy loads. And once glass is tempered, it can't be re-cut or have edgework done or holes drilled in it. Also, cost is at least 75% more.

Cheers,
Brian, (Cynthia White's husband and recovering commercial glass company owner).

welcome Brian, are you familiar with a new product of glass panes sandwich with Plexiglas / it is similar to a car windshield but not as thick
 
Good morning and thanks for the warm welcomes. Cynthia was right. Terrific forum and very nice, helpful and civil folks.

Firstly, to reply to Ray's question regarding Plexiglass sandwich panels. I think you're talking about double, (or more) layered polycarbonate sheets, often referred to as "Twin Wall", one manufacturer's brand name. Googling twin wall polycarbonate sheets will turn up lots of info and supplier choices. Available in thicknesses from about 4mm to 25mm and particularily good for overhead glazing. Light as a feather compared to glass with good insulating and UV resistant qualities. Polycarbonate, (often referred to as Lexan, G.E.'s brand), is vastly stronger and impact resistant than Plexiglass, (a brand name for acrylic). Polycarbonate scratches easier than acrylic, but manufacturers have mostly allayed that problem by offering scratch-resistant versions. Considerably more expensice than acrylic but depending on the application, a great product.

On the other hand Alan, perhaps that's not the product you were asking about and I plumb wore out my typing finger for nought.

Now; about using tempered glass in cabinet doors. Alan made a good point about using it for glass below 36" height for safety reasons.

Tony's post was great. Yeah, tempered glass can be cut.........sometimes; if you get lucky and likely because the glass wasn't tempered fully and properly in the first place, (which is very common ). The tempering process creates a surface tension which when broken causes the glass to explode into small cube-like pieces that probably won't cut you. Sometimes you can get away with grinding the edges and etching the surface, etc; but it's a bit of a turkey-shoot as to when it might explode on you.

Hot-rodders when chopping a vehicle often replace the windows with polycarbonate, or use methods like Tony's to re-cut the existing glass. Usually successful because the original glass wasn't actually properly tempered, or likely wasn't even meant to be tempered. Most auto manufacturers didn't start using tempered side and back lights until the late 40's at the earliest, and mostly not until the 50's. Years ago, a buddy of mine asked for glass help with a 1950 Merc he chopped. My business partner, an old-time expert glazier and glass cutter said he was willing to gamble the glass wasn't tempered at all. He proceeded to successfully cut the existing glass to the new template sizes using a $2 glass cutter.

Apologies for the lengthy post. I'll try in future to avoid being the guy who you ask the time and he tells you how to build a watch.

Best,
Brian
 
** Good question Al. Look at all the neat information people posted for everyone to read.

** Welcome Brian - your expertise is greatly appreciated. What might be common knowledge for your profession is new to many of us here. Thanks.

Cheers,
 
Laminated

I would hope anyone would use safety glass on base cabinets. Tempered is expensive and like someone mentioned, once tempered, that's it. Check out laminated, it can be cut and drilled if needed.
 
safety glass

I just finished building a wine cabinet with glass panels in the lower doors. I used safety glass because my son's home has a big dog and will hear the pitter patter of little feet in the next couple years. Tempered glass would likely work, too, but I chose it for two reasons: 1. If it breaks, they won't be chasing little cubes of glass all over the place; and b. safety glass was about half the price of tempered glass.
 
Good morning folks,
Re the last couple of takes on glass to cabinets posted by Jim and Bruce, here's another few cents worth:

I agree that safety glass should be used lower, (below 36" AFF. There are 3 types that qualify as safety glass: 1. tempered, (or heat strengthened 2. Laminated, and 3. Wired, (which is mainly used in fire-reated walls and doors and not aesthetically suitable for cabinets).

For cabinets, I would suggest that tempered is by far the best choice than laminated for a number of reasons.
1. Tempered is much stronger and better able to resist impacts. It is 4 to 6 times stronger than regular float glass of the same thickness, whereas laminated is only about .8 the strength of regular glass.
2. The minimum thickness of laminated available is 6mm or 1'4", (2 layers of 3mm either side of a .015" vinyl interlayer), which I assume is thicker than can normally be accommodated in cabiet doors. Tempered, or heat strenthened can be ordered as thin as 1/8" thick.
3. While laminated can be cut and have holes drilled, it is labour intensive and subject to a likelihood of breakage. One side must be cut first, then the interlayed burned through usually by pouring and lighting alcohol, then turned over to cut the other side. Drilling it, usually results in breaking at least one out of three pieces.
4. Often desireable in cabinets, tempered glass, (although this has to be done before the tempering process), can easily have fancy edgework done.; E.g. various dimensions of bevels, flat or round polished, bull-nosed, etc.
5. Relative costs: I'm surprised that Jim and Bruce were quoted considerably more for tempered over laminated because I know for a fact the local glass or millwork shops' costs are close to the same for either.........in the $4 per sq.ft. range. Like with most things, very small orders or sizes would cost more. Assuming they mark up their cost about 50%, you should be charged these approx. prices:
6mm tempered or laminated......$6/sq.ft.
Holes drilled..............................$15 ea.
Polished edges..........................$.015 to .025 cents per lin. inch.
Pattern cutting,other than square or rectangular).......$20 ea.
Notches.......................$20 ea.
Bevelled edges.............$.015 to $.030 cent per inch

These days, rather than cut and fabricate the glass themselves, most local glass shops order these types of glasses from big city manufacturers who have high-tech tempering, aminating, edging, cutting and fabrication equipment. Turn around time should be no more than one to two weeks. To order the glass, provide your supplier with sizes, (or cardboard templates if odd shapes), hole diameters and distances from edges to center of holes, edgework details, (round or flat or pencil polished an size of bevel; e.g. 1/4" to 1"), etc.

Now what was the original question? Oh ya; laminated or tempered glass in lower portions of cabinet. Go tempered for sure. Just make sure you get sizes and fabrication details right the first time.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Thanks for all the great info. I talked with the cleint today over dinner and they decided that temperd glass was what they wanted no matter the cost. The shape is a simple rectangle so that is no problem. Started cutting all the ply today hopefully will have the cabinets built by end of the week.
 
Well Brian a big welcome to the family. It sure is great to have another couple as members and Canadian too.:D:thumb:

I will make sure to add the tags to this post cause it sure is gonna come in handy all the info you provided here. With my gray hair i have to rely on search and tags.:rofl:

While i am at it seeing as how you a glass man, do you have any idea just how flat glass really is. Sounds like a crazy question but i would like to order a piece of glass that is say around 10 or more millimeters thick to use for sharpening my woodworking tools. But i was wondering if glass that thick is uniform flat across say 20 inches by 18 inches. What would be the nearest standard thickness for this kind of glass.
 
Top