Bringing 220V in the garage/shop

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Los Angeles, CA
I am considering getting 220V in my shop. My electrical panel is mounted on the rear of the house. My shop is about 30 to 40 feet away from the panel. There is a feed (underground) into the garage. This feeds the four electrical outlets. It also powers four tube lights.

I think it was Darren or Jim who suggested having a sub-panel. I don't know anything about the electrical stuff and I will hire an electrician to do the job.

I am not sure how to begin to plan this. I guess I need to calculate the Amps that the machines will draw. Right? But, right now, I don't have any big tools. I hope to acquire a cabinet saw, bigger lathe (maybe Mustard), 18" band saw, drill press, dust collector in the future.

What is the significance of having a sub-panel?

What else do I need to consider to plan this?

Could you give me a rough idea of the cost?

Thanks in advance for your ideas and suggestions.
 
What is the significance of having a sub-panel?

well for one thing your going to use up the 4 recepticles real fast. I would be willing to bet that all 4 plugs are on 1 20 amp breaker. I have 2 lighting circuits separate, 8 110 volt circuits on 3 separate 20 amp circuits and 2 -220volt circuits, all to plower my TS, BS, Planner, CS and Lathe.

What else do I need to consider to plan this?

See the answer to the first question

Could you give me a rough idea of the cost?

I have no idea but it certainly won't be as bad as it could since there is no underground work to be done.

Thanks in advance for your ideas and suggestions.

Se the answers in blue
 
So Don, you have allotted 20 Amps for all your 120V connections. How many total Amps for the 220V?

And do you also have a main panel and a sub-panel? If so, why? Did you run out of space on the main panel?
 
I am running a dedicated 220 line into my shop too. The previous owner put it in 220 but using 12 gauge wire!!!!:doh::doh::doh:

I went to Borg bought a 100 amp panel (around 100 with panel and fuses)and installed that in my shop. Big importance - it has a main breaker - that is a 100 amp breaker that shuts off the whole shop. If I need to do wiring I just turn off the main breaker and do what I need to do with out fear of turning myself into a light bulb. Also, I can install dedicated fuses to each wall, outlet, machine, lights etc. Plus, if I go out of town on a job I can just shut off the main fuse(ok,ok, breaker) and don't have to worry if the kids go in side and touch any of the machines (that they aren't supposed to do in the first place!)

You may be able to get a book/friend to help with the wiring and check out some of the other posts on site about how to set up the electrical in a shop, then, if required, get an licensed electrician to sign off on it.(talk with someone first though. Some states require that the licensed sparkie install the work themselves, then have a city/state inspector sign it off)

just my 2 pennies

Brian
 
I am not sure how to begin to plan this. I guess I need to calculate the Amps that the machines will draw. Right? But, right now, I don't have any big tools. I hope to acquire a cabinet saw, bigger lathe (maybe Mustard), 18" band saw, drill press, dust collector in the future.
I'd at least plan for the tools that run at the same time and/or if you've got someone else using your tools at the same time.


What is the significance of having a sub-panel?
A sub-panel will give you a main source to tap into at the garage for when you need to run additional circuits. Overall the cost may be greater to run it initially but you'll save money not having to run addition circuits all the way back to the house.

What else do I need to consider to plan this?
What size is your panel at the house? Is it a breaker type of system or do you have fuses? I'd put in a minimum of 50 amp sub-panel, 100 would be better, but will depend on how big the panel is at your house.

Could you give me a rough idea of the cost?
Can't really say, has a lot of factors, but get multiple bids to compare.

See answers in blue
 
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sub-panel vs main-panel

And do you also have a main panel and a sub-panel? If so, why? Did you run out of space on the main panel?

Mohammad,

Just my thoughts on this...

The main panel distributes the power throughout your house. A sub panel is going to take a large amperage source (say 60 amps on a 60 amp fuse for example) from your main panel in the house and on a heavy gage wire (2 gauge in my case) and then distribute that out to your shop as you see fit. As I mentioned earlier, the big benefits of a sub-panel, IMHO,
is that you can:
1. Draw higher amperage to your shop
2. If you do trip a breaker, your not shutting down half the house and crashing your computer:doh:
3. You can shut the whole shop down with one breaker and/or switch
4. Gives you extra room for dedicated breakers for wall, individual outlets, lights, etc
5. If you can get a book/friends help, cost is very reasonable for such a project. Just remember, electricity like to reach out and touch for some not so good communication! Don't work with live wires!
 
main thing to look at first is what the wire size is coming in to his garge now.. maybe he needs to have a larger line from the house to shop???? or a pole if they have them out there in the big city:)
 
Larry,

I was thinking the same thing. It might be best to run a new wire (cable?) if there's an existing underground conduit. I was also wondering about the capacity of the existing main panel.

It *is* nice having a dedicated subpanel in the shop...

Thanks,

Bill
 
A subpanel is excellent. I used to have one, but now I share my 220 with the dryer..

I really need to get an electrician out run a dedicated subpanel to the garage...
 
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone said he should use the wires that are there for a sub-panel. Not knowing anything about the current installation I wouldn't make any recommendation other than to have a licensed electrician look it over. ;)
 
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone said he should use the wires that are there for a sub-panel. Not knowing anything about the current installation I wouldn't make any recommendation other than to have a licensed electrician look it over. ;)

He will have to pull a new wire to match the amperage. The electrician will know what to do. Beside, it is best for insurance purposes to get a permit, which means the city will inspect to make sure it is correct. Any good electrician will not take the chance and do any work without a permit. His license would be at risk.
 
Just to be clear, I don't think anyone said he should use the wires that are there for a sub-panel. Not knowing anything about the current installation I wouldn't make any recommendation other than to have a licensed electrician look it over. ;)

I agree Darren no one suggested using the existing wire. There probably aren't enough conductors to run 220 and I am sure the capacity is too small.
 
Thanks guys.

I have no knowledge of the existing panel configuration.:dunno: I guess I will find out from the electrician.

I will definitely not tinker with this myself. I don't feel comfortable with electricity, gas and water projects.:eek:

Good to know that wire gauge plays an important role. I had no idea that something like this would require pulling permits.
 
Mohammad,
Go ahead and have an electrician come out and give you an estimate. It won't cost you anything and with the economy the shape it's it it may not run you as much as it would if time were better. Shoot for something like a 100 amp panel but let him know what you are planning. figure that you be running at least a 3 hp TS and 2 hp Dust collector but I'd plan on a 5 hp and at least a 3 hp.
He will be able to give you better advise once he sees what you have. y existing house which is about 4 years old has a 200 amp service4, My last house had a 100 amp service. The house my folks had that I sold after my mom passed away had a 40 amp service.
 
Mohamamd i am going to be controversial here and suggest to you that you consider the diy route.

There is nothing complicated about what you want to do. The only part i would say you pull an electrician in for is the part where you want to hook up to the existing panel.

You aint doing anything hi tech here not even two way switching etc.

With the way things a are designed and available in USA at home depot its really a not complicated and the savings you make will help with other needs and wants.

If it were gas, well i run a mile even though i know what to do i dont ever want to be around when the gas comes back on to find a leak.


Consider this plan of action and BTW i can dig out every receipt for my shop which as an immigrant i did myself.


1) Go to home depot and spend some time in the electrical dept. Buy the home depot electrical book. They will also have a copy of the abbreviated residential codes. At least they did in Canada and we usually have less than you guys.
2) Plan out your garage shop electrical location and needs. I can help you with this via email if you like.

Lets be rational you simply want a few light fittings a on off switch for the lights, a scattering of 110v receptacles and a few 220v receptacles.

All the wires need to lead to Rome which in this case is your subpanel.

The way these panels are made in NA there is no big deal to wiring them up especially for a simple install like this.

I would look at how the cable in the garage runs from the panel and examine if it could be replaced like someone mentioned via a conduit. Again home depot supplies fully shielded armor cable in short lengths and you can replace that yourself.

Then when you have it all connected up get the sparky in to do a check around and hook it into the main panel.

So why do i say do this yourself. Well in my case i have always tried to be self reliant. Was brought up that way and probably why i can relate to the American outlook of self reliance.

The electrical system where i come from is 220v and is quiet different. But again its not rocket science except like the UK we had a switch on every receptacle. That for some people added a degree of complexity.

When i set up my shop a significant influence in doing it was to obtain experience at the NA construction techniques. I would love to have had the time to build the structure myself but i settled for having the shell built for me.

When it came to my electrical i too got an electrician in. But he was a local in our community and hockey connection and he said look why dont you do it yourself. I had already planned out what i wanted to the last T so he realized i had knowledge of what i was doing. You can get to that same position pretty quickly. When i found out from him that the code here permitted one to do the work oneself provided you have a permit and have the electrical safety authorities do their tests along the way I did not hesitate. Heck i even roped my wife in as the cable puller and i had to pull a thick cable all the way from my panel in the basement through conduit into my shop.

The good thing is i know how its all wired and i did not skimp. I made sure to over kill in certain areas because for the small distances the extra cable was minimal cost.

In my case i put in a huge panel physically but just a 60amp main breaker.

I did my own insulation, own drywall and at the end of it i now have a knowledge and appreciation of the construction methods here.

Never again will i do drywall. But i will do my own basement now as far as the walls and electrical are concerned.

You have to be a technically minded character given you sorting out how to use a camera like you just recieved and have used tools and built a table like you shown.

You have just moved from an apartment to house. That house might need some work or you might want to change somethings at a later stage on a DIY basis. Here is an opportunity to easily get to grips with what is currently behind those walls at least electrically.

There are only three wires involved in normal electrical feed.

Live, Neutral and Earth. You just have to make sure to use the right cable and attach it in a manner that suites the building codes in your area. I am assuming you are going to surface mount this electrical in the "shop".

Even if you decide no you want an electrician to do it all, still buy the home depot book. Read up about it so that you know what is cooking to be able to asses whether he is doing it correctly.

Go and price out the material at home depot its not hard. At least this way you know what its gonna cost.

BTW that is the other beauty of the Diy route. You can do it incrementally and help the good old cash flow. Its not as if you live out in the country to the extent where a trip to the home depot is a major haul.

Here is a link to the book i am refering to. Its full of colored pictures that clearly show you what is what. I should have known you guys would get it for $5 less than us.:doh:

There is also a DVD you can pick up via amazon for less than $5 bucks but i like the book better you can hold it next to you or scribble notes in it. But you might like the dvd too.


You can save yourself a pretty penny doing it my way and put that towards something else.

Think of something else that many of the guys here will take for granted, i dont know if you have kids but if you have some boys get them involved in helping yu that way they get to learn house maintenance too. Mine kick and scream but settle down after a while and actually start to enjoy it.

Let me know if you want some assistance we can email back and forth.

I am not trying to do the electrician out of a job here. But the electrician if he is honest like mine will tell you its not a huge job for them and his costs will not be proportionate to the time involved because of the overhead on a small job that is if he is pricing his work correctly.

Ok boys let me have it for encouraging him to become an amateur sparky.:rofl:
 
Ok boys let me have it for encouraging him to become an amateur sparky.:rofl:

Hey, You asked for it! :p

Actually I have no problem with someone doing their own work as long as they educate themselves and do it right.

Only piece of advice is that make sure that the grounds are done right as you don't want to get a ground loop and short out any "sensitive" equipment (computers, tv's, phones, etc. You also want to make sure any ground fault plugs throw as they are suppose to as well.
 
I wouldn't feel comfortable doing the subpanel work myself, but don't see a problem running feeds from the sub panel to the rest of the shop.
 
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