Laquer, wet sanding, buffing, etc.

Dave Black

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Central PA
I am working on some snare drums, and I am getting to the finishing now. I picked up a quart of minwax clear gloss laquer. I have not done any type of polished gloss finishes yet. Is laquer a good finish for this application. I have a binks spray gun, not sure of the model, its a siphon style( cup under the gun) Where should I start? I have never used laquer before either, will this yellow much?
 
Laquer will be a great finish but as with any oil based finish it will yellow. If you want a finish that won't yellow the only finish I have found is water based poly.

is it going to be a lot of yellowing, will the yellowing be over time or will there be some right away like with polyurethane. What steps do I take to get a really glossy finish typical of musical instruments.
 
I don't know what lacquer Don uses, but in my experience, the yellowing will be relatively slight. Much less than a typical oil finish. The wood will likely darken before the lacquer does. Most cabinet work and a lot of furniture is finished with lacquer. Musical instruments, too.

I use a lot of spray lacquer on my turned pieces. I use the stuff in spray cans, but shot from a gun is also fine. You'll probably need to thin the stuff you have. I'll let someone with more experience shooting lacquer offer advice on how much to thin it.

Anyway, I apply in light coats, building up sometimes as many as 10 to 15 of them. (Although I just finished a holly piece that looked the way I wanted after just a couple of coats.) Every 3 or 4 coats, I'll wet sand with 600 grit sandpaper to level the surface and remove any dust nibs. After I get the desired thickness built up, I wet sand with 600, then use a spindle-mounted buffing wheel with tripoli compound, then another with white diamond compound, then I finish off with Renaissance Wax applied by hand and buffed out with a clean wheel. On flatwork projects, I've done essentially the same thing, except used automotive rubbing compound, then buffing compound, to bring out the high gloss. Done right, you can get a "grand piano" finish that you can see your reflection in.

Lately, I've started using mineral spirits as my wet sanding liquid. It seems to lubricate better than water, and if I do happen to sand through the lacquer and into the wood (it's happened more than once) :doh:it doesn't tend to raise the grain the way water does.
 
while Vaughn may have more expierence with lacquers then I in my limited exposure to them in restoreing antiques I have found some yellowing that why I prefer water based poly. I am sure that many other out there can give there opinions. I prefer to air on the side of caution.
 
I agree that waterbased poly is probably the clearest, but any yellowing that lacquer adds is very slight in my opinion. A lot of very fine musical instruments are finished with lacquer, but only in recent years have I seen WB poly starting to be used, and that's just by a handful of luthiers. Not sure what drum manufacturers are using these days, but they were done with lacquer back in the 80s when I worked at a drum store. (The again, I don't think WB poly was around back then. It seems like it'd be a durable finish. Not as easily repaired as lacquer, though.)

This guy's using lacquer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFsJTCu8-0&feature=related
 
I looked at my spray gun today, its a binks model 69, What pressure is it best to run these things at. Its been laying around for much longer than I have been doing this type of stuff so I have never seen instructions on it.
 
Dave, I've not used a Binks or the HF gun, but I do know that particular HF gun has gotten pretty good reviews among some of the car painting guys. With the sale price, that one might be worth buying just to try it out.
 
Ambering is the slight amber color imparted onto the wood when the lacquer is initially applied. This ambering is similar to what you would see with BLO, shellac, poly and various other products. Unless you are painting colors, this slight ambering is actually desirable. It gives the wood a warm look.
Nitrocellulose lacquer will give this ambering. Most pre-cat lacquers are now 'water-white', which means no amber coloring.
Yellowing, on the other hand is usually referred to as part of a deteriorating process from prolonged exposure to sunlight on a product without UV inhibitors. Nitrocellulose lacquer does not have UV inhibitors. How long does it take on average for this to happen on furniture in a normal environment? Probably about 20 to 60 years depending on exposure. Most of the furniture in your home was finished with lacquer. How old is it and how yellow is it? Same for your cabinets. How old and how yellow has the finish turned?

So, my question to the original poster is.....are you referring to ambering or yellowing?
 
Ambering is the slight amber color imparted onto the wood when the lacquer is initially applied. This ambering is similar to what you would see with BLO, shellac, poly and various other products. Unless you are painting colors, this slight ambering is actually desirable. It gives the wood a warm look.
Nitrocellulose lacquer will give this ambering. Most pre-cat lacquers are now 'water-white', which means no amber coloring.
Yellowing, on the other hand is usually referred to as part of a deteriorating process from prolonged exposure to sunlight on a product without UV inhibitors. Nitrocellulose lacquer does not have UV inhibitors. How long does it take on average for this to happen on furniture in a normal environment? Probably about 20 to 60 years depending on exposure. Most of the furniture in your home was finished with lacquer. How old is it and how yellow is it? Same for your cabinets. How old and how yellow has the finish turned?

So, my question to the original poster is.....are you referring to ambering or yellowing?

Both I suppose, I was more worried with ambering though. One of the drums is cherry with small walnut stripes and I wanted the cherry to stay as light as possible. Most of my finishing experience in the past was with minwax polyurethane and that definitely ambers more than I wanted. When I opened the can on the laquer I saw it was clear so that answered my question. The poly I used before looked like honey in the can so the laquer is clear enough for me.
 
if you are coating cherry then take aned add about 5% BAHLIN cherry stain to the lacquer sealer this will hide any ambering if that is what you are worried about and with that amount of a toner you will not see any noticable differrence.
 
...One of the drums is cherry with small walnut stripes and I wanted the cherry to stay as light as possible...

Dave, the cherry is going to darken with age (exposure to UV light, actually) anyway. There are some varnishes with UV inhibitors that will slow it down somewhat, but it's still gonna darken over time.

But it'll still look beautiful contrasting with the walnut. :thumb:
 
Dave as with any coats of anything the wood will take on the natural look and be darker when you apply the finish. Take some Lacquer thinner and wipe on the wood you will see the natural color. With Lacquer as a finish the color you saw with the thinner is the color you will get with the lacquer finish. It will be a truer color finish then any other product unless you use a Acrylic lacquer finish, that's the closest to clear that I know of.
 
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