WoodRiver Low Angle Block Plane

Messages
438
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
To make a short question long........

I love working with hand tools. When I was in high school I had an opportunity to "apprentice" with a violin maker, and I bought my first hand tools. At that time the Record planes were still being made, and when I tried to tune my low angle block plane I managed to mess the sole up nicely. Since then I have learned how to properly flatten the sole of a plane, and I am finally at a point where I am looking at getting back into furniture making (my first love before the turning bug bit.)

But my real question is what low angle block plane would y'all purchase if you could? Also, I work part time at the local Woodcraft store, and I am really impressed with their most recent generation of hand planes. Has anyone actually used one?

Thanks!

Hutch
 
I love my Lee Valley low angle block plane, DX60.....
05p7001s1.jpg

The "A" model
I think it is the best one out there, $185 US

I also like the Lie Nielsen 60 1/2...
60_5_lg.jpg

but it lacks a couple of features of the LV, but it is still one VERY good plane. $165

Dunno about the made in China Wood River planes, it seems they are getting decent reviews, but they often need a bit of work, or some of the machining is off. For me, I'd rather buy my last block plane, and be done with it, I also like the idea of supporting a Canadian Company, maybe you could support an American company :dunno: Yes I realize that either of these planes are about $100 more, than the Wood River plane, and if you do not have that $100, well you don't have it, but if you can squeeze the extra out of your budget, then I know you will be very satisfied with either the LV or the LN, mine puts a smile on my face each time I use it.

YMMV :wave:
 
The current generation (3?) of WoodRiver looks pretty good. I have the #4, and it really works well - right out of the box.

For a block plane, though, I really still like the Lee Valley.
 
I'll put my $.02 in with a couple of suggestions. If money is tight, get an old Stanley 60 1/2. It is a very nice utilitarian plane. Get someone to help you tune it up and you'll have a solid user. And you can probably do it for under $35.

If you are flush and want to buy a really excellent plane, then go with the LV or the LN. IMNSHO [not so humble opinion] the WoodRiver, however nice it is, isn't a low priced but good user, nor is it the kind of fine tool that delights the user every time it goes in the hand. [Disclaimer:I haven't used a WR.] I am biased though, and I have a real affection for old well made tools, and new really nice tools especially those made in the US or our northerly neighbor. New stuff from China just doesn't do it for me. I am sure there are many folks who aren't afflicted with my preferences, and are very happy with their Wood Rivers.
 
I have a Woodriver smoothing plane and it is not bad. The sole was flat and the blade took minimal honing to get it flat, square, and sharp. The sides were not square with the sole though and I'm not going to take the time to do that. I'll never use it for shooting. I bought this while it was on sale.
Would I buy another one? Nope. I am tired of buying stuff made in china. The quality is just not the same no matter how you look at it. Is it sufficient to get the job done? Absolutely. It just does not have the feel and the workings of a fine plane like a LN or LV. Many of the old planes are just a joy to use. That to me is what hand tools are all about. It is about the experience and the moments spent working with wonderfully crafted tools creating a memory in your works.

If it is just about value and to have a plane to use for general use, you can pick up an old stanley and put a new IBEC(did I get that right?) blade in it and it will cut like a dream.

Just my opinion...;)
 
I love my Lee Valley low angle block plane, DX60.....

Too bad you're so far from a store, as it makes it hard to try them out.

Couple weeks ago LVT had a "plane event" at the store, where you could try out all the planes in their classroom, and talk to some knowledgeable folks.

My point is that the "old" Lee Valley low angle block plane is 2" wide, whereas the new swoopy one that Stu mentioned above is 1-3/4" wide. They definitely feel different in the hands. I actually preferred the older one when I was trying it out. Best to get your hands on it and give it a go. (link to the LVT block planes)
 
I have no gripes with having to do a little tune-up with a plane out of the box. That said, the first generation of WR planes were often in POOR shape out of the box. That's why I didn't get any when they first came out. These new ones are a world apart from the first ones.

As for budget, the money is always tight. :doh: That's a big reason why I was looking at the WR. I will have to take another look at them when I work at the store next.

Thanks all for the input!

Hutch

P.S. I have been quickly learning, however, that it's cheaper to buy good quality high end tools right off the bat.
 
Matt given your line of work I can only echo what Ken and others have said here.

I have a LV block plane the old type Art refers to. I also bought the woodknob and the tote attachment.

There are finer points that i dont think get mentioned enough.

1) On either side of the LV block plane there are two small grub screws that can be adjusted to keep the blade tracking in the left to right direction within the plane body.

2) The adjuster on the LV allows for fine settings that stay put.

3) The throat on the LV also adjusts so you can close it up.

Having just done a whole excercise on sharpening and playing with my old user planes and sharpening my block plane, i think woodworkers underestimate why these features were put in these planes and why they were very definitely missing from others.

In my view its the ability to set it and work with it and come back to its and set it again.

On ones without it that becomes a fiddle excercise and more frustration than its worth. Its the same as a decent spokeshave.

I have 4 now. Two are ww2 versions that have a tang, I am about to modify them as per Glenns suggestion, but without a mod you have to tap and retap and fiddle with them to get theblade set just right. Then it lasts all as long as it takes to jam em up with shavings and you then have the whole saga repeat.

In my view i think the old story of "the bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price" is very applicable to cutting edge hand tools.

I would further argue that I would prefer to go without in other areas of my life and have a fine tool i appreciate and enjoy in its entirety than a cheap one.

There is also my strong feelings that if we dont support these companies that have given us the opportunity to purchase a properly well made tool, soon our whole world will be value engineered to mediocrity.

My last parting shot is to the likes of Woodcraft, Rockler and their other cousins out there.

These stores are merely marketing houses. Franchises and brands that serve to distribute wares. The current trend is towards having tools made in a factory and private labeled trading off the brand perception and loyalty accumulated due to marketing dollars and cheap price of asian goods. They are not committed to the art of fine tool making such a Lie Neilson or the Lee family has been. When you take a guy like Ron Hock, Mr Leonard Lee, or Lie Neilson and there are many more, these people have devoted their lives towards producing implements that support our ability as hobbiests and professionals to achieve a quality and enjoyment of woodworking and tool ownership our grandparents would be proud of. Just take the number and amount of variances of cutting edge tools they have made and continue to introduce. Its easy to just go knock off the mass volume items. But lets not complain then when we go into a Home depot and they only got the fast moving lines and ripping us off for them.

What about resale value. Just look at the value still left in them old Stanleys. But consider if you would buy a current version today in 80 years time.:huh:

A time has to come when we decide as a generation whether that means something and whether we are gonna support real people with real commitment or complain for the rest of our lives about corporations with no soul and yet support them.

I dont see a newsletter coming from Woodcraft that has an ounce of touch on what Lee Valley puts out. I dont see an antique tool collection or the study of patents of old tool makers and the education that goes with it.

Ok i will stop i am getting carried away with ranting, I apologize it just gets to me that we support these fresh air johnny come lately ride on the back of others copy cat vapor ware brands. :huh: Was a time when we all had an ethic of supporting the good guy for the right reason.

My apologies if i have offended anyone. I am just a simple guy. :eek:

There is way more to this choice than just $$$$$$$
 
OK, I have tried to stay out of this, but this is just too tempting and is a perfect seque for Wilbur Pans cartoon. Warning it has bad language near the end.

<< Link Deleted by Request >>
 
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Rob, I am glad you brought up how the LV works in practical situations. That's the kind of info that I find very helpful. Cuz you're right, I have no desire to spend all my time fiddling with settings. And I absolutely agree that I would rather buy one great tool than 3 mediocre tools.

I was waiting for someone to give "the rant." :D

I have to agree with a lot of what you expressed. But there is something to be said for decent quality planes priced within reach of the hobbyist woodworker. Yes, for you and for me, we may look to better quality, and along with that support the engineering and improvements of Canadian and US manufacturers, but people are cheap and times are tough.

For example: 24" industrial planers from Grizzly or other imports can run a mere $4,000 to 5,000. 45 years ago Oliver 24" planers cost as much as a sports car, and they still do: around $25,000. The cost of American made quality is the same in relation to other costs, but people no longer have a memory of tools and machinery B.A. (Before Asianmade) Most would go with the Grizzly. (I don't mean that people actually don't remember, but the consumer mindset is different as a whole.)

BUT....I appreciate what you're saying. If I had a little more money I wouldn't even be considering the WR. You get what you pay for. Shoot, I may still spring for the LV. Problem is that I am a starving artist, sort of. :rolleyes:

AND...you might be surprised to know that in the case of their handplanes, Woodcraft did consult with Rob Cosman on how to make their planes better......though they may not have actually heeded all of his recommendations. :huh:

Thanks!

Hutch
 
Bill that was so good i now have pains and had to use half a box of tissues to wipe my eyes from laughing so much.

Matt consider this rebuttle. You will remain a starving artist because your actions ensure that local workers will get less and less and not be able to purchase your art.

We have to consider how we got to where we are today in the first place. :)

We also have to practice what we preach. If i cannot afford something i do without in other areas.

Just go back to Charlie Plessums review of his own experience on dust collection. He has been very open and honest about his own experiences in this case. It all ends up being false economy and does more harm than good in my not so humble opinion.
 
I agree, it's important to practice what we preach. But sometimes there has to be an "in-betweener" tool just to have a functional shop. (Although, I generally I try to avoid having to buy tools twice.) Right now I am trying to figure out if I can and should go for the top end at this point in time. I will probably end up waiting until I can afford the good stuff. I just invested in a bunch of Festool, so I have to save my pennies for my next round of high-end purchases. :D

Which actually brings up another question. Has anyone used Clifton planes? I imagine that for those of us on this side of the pond we'd choose LV or LN if we were in the market for a high end hand tool? Haven't heard of the Clifton planes being any better.

Thanks!

Hutch
 
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Allen Levine has a Clifton #4. I think he likes it. From what I know, it's on par with a Bedrock or maybe a LN. As it is priced close to a LN, if I were looking for a new plane, I'd go with a LN. For now though, my 90 +/- year old 604 is still serving me well.

 
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As far as older block planes are concerned, I bought a Stanley 65 knuckle joint low angle block plane a while back (couple of years back). At first I didn't like it because it's a bit larger - maybe about the size of the older LV low angle block plane. I put a replacement blade in it and, over time, it's become one of my favorites.

Buying a 65 is a problem because there can be cracks at the back side of the mouth, but if you can find a good one, you may grow to like it as much as I do. Unfortunately, they're not cheap because apparently other people like them also.

Mike
 
As far as older block planes are concerned, I bought a Stanley 65 knuckle joint low angle block plane a while back (couple of years back). At first I didn't like it because it's a bit larger - maybe about the size of the older LV low angle block plane. I put a replacement blade in it and, over time, it's become one of my favorites...

I like my 65 knuckle joint a lot! Got a Hock blade in it. It sits on the shelf right next to my LV block plane (the original, not the new 'streamlined' one), and both of them see a lot of use.
 
Interestingly, the new WR low angle block plane is patterned after the #65 knuckle joint plane!

I did a quick search for the #65, and some were being listed for well over $100. But it looks like I could get one for as low as $65 after shipping.

Thanks!

Hutch

P.S. Yeah Ken, that's a really nice plane! I have been looking for #60X planes at local antique markets, but the few I have run across have been beaten up pretty badly. Broken and missing parts, etc. I would love to own a set of them some day!
 
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Matt, my 604 was pretty nasty when I got it:


It has a bit of sweat equity in it.

As for the wider block planes, it depends alot on the individual. I like the feel of the Stanley 60 1/2, which is the same width as the LN 60 1/2, but I have small hands. I did not like the feel of my Record 60 1/2, and ended up selling it. It's amazing how different 1/4" more width feels, so if you can try the plane out before choosing, it may be helpful.

Another lower price alternative [to a LN 60 1/2 or LV] is a LN 102 [or is it 103?] low angle block, in iron and with a non adjustable throat. I'd take one any day over an imported knock off.
 
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