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Cabinet Table Saw Question

Which Cabinet Table Saw should Cynthia upgrade to?

  • She should get a SawStop for $2800 base, there is no 2nd choice.

    Votes: 18 48.6%

  • She should spend around $1500 and get some other things that she needs

    Votes: 10 27.0%

  • She should suck it up and use her contractor's saw

    Votes: 4 10.8%

  • She should ask the question after we have judged photos of 3 finished projects.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • She should give me an all-expense paid trip to visit her and evaluate her woodworking first hand

    Votes: 5 13.5%
  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .
Rob Keeble said:
I think its just dangerous to fall into the trap that the Sawstop is the be all and end all of the dangers of working with a table saw or any other machine for that matter.
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Heartily agree.

Another option you have not mentioned which i am sure Brian the glassman will love me for, is why not take your bosch and make a home for it like Alan did recently. You can make this with a larger outfeed table and transform your saw into a quasi table saw with a large surface area that would make it a degree safer for cutting sheet goods.
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I mentioned it in a link, but it was buried in the body of my post.


As an alternative to the Festool :)eek: on that price) Dewalt makes a track saw as well. And in addition to the straight edge clamp link I posted earlier, they make accessories so you can turn it into a quasi track saw/router/jigsaw. Link
 
I don't believe I've seen this option mentioned, and it does deserve thought. You can often get a very nice used cabinet saw in the $800-$1200 range. You get a good saw and have $ for other necessities, like wood.
 
Here's my take on this. If making the saw you have more stabil by making a base for it like I posted a thread about and Rob posted a link to it then thats what I would do. If you really have your heart set on a new cabinet saw then there is no question in my mind that you should go with a sawstop! I see no reason to give any other manufacturer my hard earned money that doesn't care enough to be innovative in this area. vBesides your getting a saw that is way more heavy duty than any other saw out there because of the forces it has to with stand if the brake is actuated. Also if for some reason they do go out of business then you just bypass the electronics and operate it like a regular tablesaw. As for the track saw I would just make my own guide. I've used a festool tracksaw and am not the least bit impressed with it. You can get chip free cuts in chinese plywood on a tablesaw with the proper blade and no zero clearance insert. I do it all the time with a two year old blade to boot!
 
Alan Bienlein said:
! I see no reason to give any other manufacturer my hard earned money that doesn't care enough to be innovative in this area.
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I think they were more concerned about a company-ending lawsuit over marketing a safety device that hadn't been tested in the consumer market on a large scale.
 
Chris Hatfield said:
I think they were more concerned about a company-ending lawsuit over marketing a safety device that hadn't been tested in the consumer market on a large scale.
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That might have been true when it first came out but it's been what 7 to 10 years know? What's there excuse now?

Anyway lets not digress here cause this will not benefit Cynthia. :wave:
 
Alan Bienlein said:
That might have been true when it first came out but it's been what 7 to 10 years know? What's there excuse now?

Anyway lets not digress here cause this will not benefit Cynthia. :wave:
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License fees.

But Gass himself said it, so you have to consider the source.
 
Chris Hatfield said:
I think they were more concerned about a company-ending lawsuit over marketing a safety device that hadn't been tested in the consumer market on a large scale.
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Just for clarity, from a Fine Woodworking article:

Late in 2009, when responding to a Fine Woodworking reader's question about why tablesaw manufacturers hadn't adopted the SawStop technology, the major tool companies pointed to a number of reasons why they hadn’t struck a deal with Gass when he first approached them. These ranged from doubts that the technology would work over decades of hard use, to the difficulty—even impossibility—of rolling out the technology through an entire line of tablesaws, especially the small, portable, jobsite saws (such as the saw in the Osorio case) that must stand up to weather and other forms of abuse. Also, most were concerned that if they rolled it out only on some of their saws, it might amount to a tacit admission that their other saws were unsafe.
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That said, Alan is right...this part of the debate has little to do with Cynthia's poll. ;)
 
Vaughn McMillan said:
Just for clarity, from a Fine Woodworking article:



That said, Alan is right...this part of the debate has little to do with Cynthia's poll. ;)
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I didn't know about this lawsuit.....unless this is reversed on appeal, doesn't this mean that every non-sawstop table saw manufacturer is going to go out of business when they get besieged by lawsuits from everyone who has ever had an injury?
 
Cynthia White said:
Okay, I read Alan B.'s thread and I saw his version of the table outfitted to the saw, and then another version that I saw Vaughn posted (is that yours Vaughn?). Are you telling me there's a contractors' type table saw under that GIANT table?
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Making large portable bases/outfeed tables for these size saws are very common. And for the cost involved (usually about two sheets of MDF or ply, some casters and a bit of hardware), it really should be one of your first steps in deciding if this saw is going to remain in your inventory.

Even the little table-top saws can benefit from this kind of base, and I bet a SawStop contractor saw would as well, potentially giving you a cheaper upgrade option down the line.

Even if you've got three grand to blow on a SawStop, $200 (max) to upgrade your Bosch is a very small entrance fee. And to save space, you can put a fold-down outfeed table on the back.
 
Vaughn has the same tablesaw I have that I made a base for. One of the main reasons I did it for mine was storage and second was mobility. I use my shop for more than just woodworking and sometimes need to move the tools out of the way. Even my outfeed/workbench is on the same locking casters. I just need some time now to get the base for the tablesaw finished.

The plywood is the chinese stuff I was talking and was able to make chip free cuts on the tablesaw using the stock insert for the blade. It's all in using the proper blade for the material you are going to cut. I only use a zero clearance insert when I rip thin pieces of stock that would slip down in the slot on the stock insert.
 
Alan Bienlein said:
. It's all in using the proper blade for the material you are going to cut. I only use a zero clearance insert when I rip thin pieces of stock that would slip down in the slot on the stock insert.
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And there gentlemen i rest my case on the aspect of training.

Tonight my son came home from school with a Safety test they had handed in at school in shop class. He showed me it and i decided to quiz him on it again to see if he actually could repeat the answers. I was impressed. It covered the jointer, hows and whys and whats, it covered the table saw the same and the planner and bandsaw.

No safety device is going to save you if you dont have the fundamentals.:)

I would put some money into paying Drew (he is a pro) to come down and show you the rights and wrongs after which i am sure you will feel a little more comfortable with your bosch. ;)
 
Cynthia White said:
I didn't know about this lawsuit.....unless this is reversed on appeal, doesn't this mean that every non-sawstop table saw manufacturer is going to go out of business when they get besieged by lawsuits from everyone who has ever had an injury?
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Good question. In my opinion, that Ryobi incident was ridiculous and should be overturned on appeals. The worker was wholly ignorant. He was encouraged to not use any safety devices by his employer and was free-handing a rip cut as demonstrated by his manager and peers many times over...a major no-no on a tablesaw. His employer had the opportunity to purchase a Sawstop tablesaw - the same as you and I, but instead supplied his crew with a $200 benchtop Ryobi. In the end, even the worker admitted his negligence, yet Ryobi was held to blame and forced to pay the negligent worker big bucks.

Of course the big question (and the one you asked) is will this prompt other lawsuits? Yes, I think it will, but I can only hope they are argued in front of judges and juries with at least half a brain.

When seat belts or air bags first became available for cars, I don't recall any manufacturers getting sued because they hadn't incorporated them into their car's design yet. On the other hand, it wasn't too long before they became mandatory. Shortly after that though, the price per unit dropped considerably. If blade-stopping technology does become mandatory, I suspect we'll see the cost per unit go down for that, too.
 
glenn bradley said:
Your Bosch saw, although at the top of the heap for its class, is a portable job-site saw. Your recent project involves large pieces of sheet goods which are a challenge on any saw not properly equipped but, really awkward on a smaller, lighter machine.

The reason I point this out is to make sure you are not making a long term decision on your most recent experiences. My dad spent a load of dough outfitting his shop and it turns out he slipped into lathe land. Tools we both have that I use so much that I have upgraded them, he will hardly use.

Options:

First an opinion; I would not "upgrade" to anything in a contractor format so, if the Saw Stop you are talking about is not a cabinet saw format, I'd pass.

- Build you current saw into a base to compensate for the lack of stability and capacity. This could be a fun project, be tailored to your space but would surely involve throwing a couple hundred bucks or so at a decent fence.

- Buy a better quality hybrid or lower cost cabinet saw (with a riving knife) for around $1000 - $1500. There will still be some outfeed requirements but that is true for all saws dealing with large or long material. You will not build built-ins forever, sooner or later you'll need a dresser, a table, a desk.

- Assuming it is a cabinet saw format, buy the Saw Stop and have the advantages of a cabinet saw plus the "flesh seeking saw blade" control technology.

None of this rambling really tells you what to do but, from my travels through different saws I can say that I learned:

- I don't use sheet goods near as much as I thought I would and am glad I did not outfit my shop like I built kitchens for a living; it wouldn't suit what I have grown to do.

- despite throwing every improvement and after-market add-on I needed to add to my contractor saw, I still needed to move on.

- I bought one of the best rated hybrid saws of the time and it has served me very well (cabinet saws of the time started at about double the cost).

- If I were to choose from saws available today I would spend an extra $200 - $300 and get a 3HP cabinet saw with a riving knife.

That's my contribution.
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Ah..... Ditto.... :thumb:
 
Another option is buy an older used saw and save a fist load of cash. Very few people suggest this but once you use your new saw for the first time it is used. Yes they are harder to find and may need a little attention. But they are pretty simple machines to repair and not that much to go wrong with one.

I went from a contractors saw to a older Unisaw I restored. While it would be hard to describe there is a difference in using them. The wood cuts just the same but the saw is so much more pleasant to use. Even my FIL who is very critical commented on how much more he liked using it.

As for cutting sheet goods extension tables, out-feeds, in-feed stands make all the difference in the world but even with these it is still slow and not exactly easy.
 
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