Now temp complete..lBig Failure.Build a window sash, Pictures added...New tools added

Garry Foster

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North Central Ohio
I have a picture window that wasn't installed correctly and the lower edge of it has completely rotted out..

It is pretty large at about 4 foot by 4 foot., actually a little bigger than that.

Would Kreig pocket hole assembly be suitable for this....

I can save the glass I believe.....


My concern is the sash being so big and the styles being so small. And I also have the issue that it is bigger than anything I have to lay it flat on other than the floor and it isn't very flat...

And I have never made anything like this before.....


I have a temp sash and 6 mill poly on it now and need to get something done!

Thanks for any advice or insight..
Garry
 
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Just a thought Garry. Instead if replacing it can you fill the rotted areas with epoxy and sand it to shape.

I had the same problem on several of my windows. Some frames were so rotted I had to replace them but the large picture window was only really rotted at the ends and the epoxy worked great.
 
I perffer dowels over pocket screws for something like this. Mortise and tennon are the best joint for building windows.


Al
Well That is what I am trying to go with but my first effort failed. I tried to do the mortise by careful layout and then drilling a .5 hole and cutting down to the hole with the band saw. For some reason my band saw just wouldn't cut the wood. Would take off and follow the grain ect.

I ended up running up to Harrisburg and buying the only tenon jig they had, a wood river.

I assembled it this AM and have all the mortises made and two of the tenons cut. The last two tenons are going to be tougher as they are too deep for the table saw blade. So after some deep breaths I am going to try and nibble them out with a dado blade..

Then I have to find somewhere big enough to clamp and glue them and come up with clamps as they are bigger than my longest clamps..

I still have to deal with the rabbit...for the glass.

Out of my comfort zone and this is a job I tried to find someone to pay too do but I guess I didn't look hard enough!

Garry
 
Just a thought Garry. Instead if replacing it can you fill the rotted areas with epoxy and sand it to shape.

I had the same problem on several of my windows. Some frames were so rotted I had to replace them but the large picture window was only really rotted at the ends and the epoxy worked great.

No the whole bottom is basically gone....

I wish.....

Garry
 
Pictures.

Here are some details of the window sash failure and what I am trying to do..

The bottom of the sash that rotted out...

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The rest of the sash..
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The temporary sash I made out of ripped ply and 6 mil poly sheet. I used the Kreig pocket screws here but they are hid at the present time. Really worked out quite well for this. If the new sash fails I will add Plexi to this and find someone that can build it or try again if I don't ruin the double insulated glass.

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The new sash I am working on..Bridle joints..and Epoxy glued up using pipe clamps.

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The epoxy I mixed up, I had no real idea of how much it would take and made plenty. Of what you see gone I also covered an old piece of luan about a foot square just to see how that worked.. And it was only to the black line to start with. Yup wasted about 5.00 worth of epoxy I suspect.

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After this is done I still have to get the glass in and held. I am in over my pay grade as we used to say... There have been some new tools! I'll show them in another post..

Ideas, useful criticisms and all help appreciated.

Garry
 
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New tools

Well I had to get some new tools to get where I am on this job.

I started trying to make the bridle joints by drilling a hole and then using my band saw to clean out the bridles. However the band sawing failed totally. So I made a run up too Harrisburg, Pa and picked up a Wood River tenon jig, I did some reading before I went and the reviews weren't very favorable as to fit and finish but it seemed to be functional. So 89.00 dollars plus tax and 100 or so miles I got to assemble and clean this up. I was pleased with it in general and managed to clean up the earlier mistakes and got the joints completed...


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Of course then I didn't have any clamps close to long enough. I thought about making some poor boy clamps from some pallet planks I had laying around but as I also had some 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch pipe laying I decided to make some extensions for my 1/2 inch pipe clamps and get some new HF 3/4 inch clamps.(On sale for 8.99).

These have a stand as part of the casting. The ones without the stand were $7.99.
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They also had the 56 inch clamps on sale for $9.99 so I got a couple of them, but ended up not using them so may take them back as it might make me have too many clamps...:eek:
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Now I had the pipe but it wasn't threaded so HF had this 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch pipe threading set on sale for around $24.00 so I picked it up. I have cut 8 3/4 inch threads and 3 1/2 inch threads so I am probably already ahead of hardware store threading even if they would have threaded carry in pipe. Should have taken one of my 20 percent off coupons in with me but never thought about it.:doh:
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So now I am waiting 24 hours for the glue to dry then get the sash to fit the hole and the glass to fit the sash..

Garry
 
Well here is the piece of glass I am working with, Thats a 4 foot level just for a feel for the size. Cleaning it of all the butyl caulk took a lot of time with scraping and MEK.
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And here the sash is ready for the rabbeting. This will be the hard part....
My plan is to use the router hand held. There isn't much to keep the router level. I am sure this would be a simple matter for those of you more experienced. But it is where I can ruin all the effort expended so far.
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Garry
 
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Cutting the angle on the bottom of the sash..

Well now I had to cut the slope on the lower edge. Using this little Harbor freight level I measured the angle to be 12 degrees. It was raining while I was pulling the temporary sash so no pictures of the actual sill.
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So I set the blade at 12 degrees and used this table saw setup to try and do this safely. Using a stool with some blocking and my roller stand to help with the hang over. I also added a aux fence to make sure the blade didn't hit the metal fence. The clamps for the aux fence also helped hold down the sash for the cut.
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After I got so far into the cut I stopped the saw and moved the stool and the blocking so it would act as an out feed table..
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This is the angle on the bottom of the sash that resulted from this cut.
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And measuring the angle on the off cut you can see I got pretty close to the desired 12 degrees...
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Well the delays and procrastination had to end some time. It was time to cut the rabbits for the glass.

I have this old industrial bench but it sure isn't flat. So I made it as flat as I could with a couple of slats and a false top of plywood.
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Then laid the sash across it and the back of he saw..
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Ended up moving the saw out of the way and cutting the rabbits with a pattern bit and a ix6 straight edge. Used some plywood rips to as stops. A few clamps some deep breaths and it ended up pretty decent.
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The router and bit
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What was I thinking

Well I sit the glass in and started the trim boards used to hold the glass in. (Window stop?)

Mitered the ends of different width boards and oh no what was I thinking..
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Well better hunt up some more wood to rip..
 
Shattered plans literally.

When things go wrong....
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As we were installing the trim to hold the glass and almost done we went to move it a little and "CRACK"

So now it has 96.00 dollars worth of 1/4 plexy in it and I have to find that pro I couldn't find before. I just hope the plexiglass will hold up until I find a solution. Should have put some dividers in but was too tuckered out...

Garry
 
Well I had to get some new tools to get where I am on this job.

I started trying to make the bridle joints by drilling a hole and then using my band saw to clean out the bridles. However the band sawing failed totally. So I made a run up too Harrisburg, Pa and picked up a Wood River tenon jig, I did some reading before I went and the reviews weren't very favorable as to fit and finish but it seemed to be functional. So 89.00 dollars plus tax and 100 or so miles I got to assemble and clean this up. I was pleased with it in general and managed to clean up the earlier mistakes and got the joints completed...


View attachment 55925

Of course then I didn't have any clamps close to long enough. I thought about making some poor boy clamps from some pallet planks I had laying around but as I also had some 3/4 inch and 1/2 inch pipe laying I decided to make some extensions for my 1/2 inch pipe clamps and get some new HF 3/4 inch clamps.(On sale for 8.99).

These have a stand as part of the casting. The ones without the stand were $7.99.
View attachment 55926
View attachment 55927


They also had the 56 inch clamps on sale for $9.99 so I got a couple of them, but ended up not using them so may take them back as it might make me have too many clamps...:eek:
View attachment 55928

Now I had the pipe but it wasn't threaded so HF had this 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch pipe threading set on sale for around $24.00 so I picked it up. I have cut 8 3/4 inch threads and 3 1/2 inch threads so I am probably already ahead of hardware store threading even if they would have threaded carry in pipe. Should have taken one of my 20 percent off coupons in with me but never thought about it.:doh:
View attachment 55929

So now I am waiting 24 hours for the glue to dry then get the sash to fit the hole and the glass to fit the sash..

Garry

On the pipe threading Lowes or Homedepot will thread and cut 10' pipe to what ever you want. As long as its 2' or larger. Just had them do 6 40" pcs for me yesterday.
 
...As we were installing the trim to hold the glass and almost done we went to move it a little and "CRACK"...

Well, that really bites. On the upside, you've picked up some good experience in the process of working outside your pay grade. ;) And picked up a few new tools, to boot. :thumb:
 
Well after the failure I went ahead and installed Plexiglas. I then painted the outside and stained the inside. The popular stained a lot lighter than the original pine but as things were temporary at this time I didn't fuss with it. I have a lead on a local place that may be able to make a doubled glass for this new sash and that will get checked out later this summer. If that works out I will have to get the stain darkened a shade or two but all I am satisfied with it for now. Finally quit raining long enough to install it.
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Always feels good to get things back togeteher even if yo know you will have to do over..

Garry
 
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