Spare me a few of your thoughts

Rob Keeble

Member
Messages
12,633
Location
GTA Ontario Canada
Hi All

There is something i have been wanting to get down to writing and asking about here for oh must be more than a year so here goes.

I think i can understand the background to our COC rules as it relates to most of the points it contains. But spare a moment to consider some of these points.

  • I lived in a country under sever censorship my entire adult life until 1994.
  • We had sanctions impossed on us by the world (for what was inmho the right reasons).
  • Thing is those sanctions achieved nothing except to isolate people and allow the ruling dictators to further entrentch their views in the minds of generations of the population.
  • The forum is hosted and was started in North America but is open to members of the world.
  • The forum has a off topic subsection which has nearly 70K posts on it very high by comparison to other subsections so to argue that its purely a woodworking forum to me seems odd.
  • Even though i spent my entire working life up until a few years ago, being involved in international trade and travelling, one never gets to discuss certain subjects with business people when one is not familiar with them.
  • I find it incredibly valuable and interesting to hear other peoples views particularly when as in the case of this forum one finds a group of people one can relate to. I have learnt a great deal about many subjects here both woodworking and non woodworking some of which has enabled me who lived with a very skew picture of our world, to rethink entirely certain outlooks in life and view on certain approaches to a multitude of subjects.
  • It has made me aware that more damage is done by isolation of silence than good. I cannot quote you exact examples without violating our coc but i think i could fill a few pages with examples of the merits of engagement rather than isolation.
  • The people i have found here seem to be pretty level headed even keel sensible kind of folk with a healthy dose of common sense and much the same value set.
  • I have not been able to make it to the forum as much as i would like the past few weeks but when i do get back to it, one can just pick upwith no problem.
  • This on its own says one feels comfortable and have made friends with people through the forum.
Add to all the above i have made no secret of my view as to the value i personally place on rights afforded people in the USA and elsewhere such as free speech and expression.

So i ask you all do you not ever talk about politics with your friends. Do you never share any religous views or discuss the religous goings on in some other group? Do you never comment to friends on current affairs?

Surely if people like ourselves adopt an approach to remain silent in the public arena on any current affair topic, then we leave nothing but the noise created by others that do and that leads to pretty one sided or extreme views being the only offering on the public stage.

I know we are a family forum. I know we are a primarily woodworking forum.

Are you indirectly saying that you have segmented your life into

woodworking only friends

computer friends

gardening friends

motorcar friends

cycling friends

etc

and that the only topic you entertain in contact with these friends is the subject at hand.

Believe me i aint trying to stir the pot i am really trying to understand this whole concept.

I struggle immensely with some of the changes taking place in the social realm.

I dont have time for numerous forums, heck i am overloaded already with who told me what such that when i have to write a pm and go back to someone on something they told me for further clarrification, its quiet a mission to remember who it was and i first have to go back and look it all up. I refuse to believe i am alone in this paradigm.

How is it possible to have thousands of friends and be able to keep in meaningful contact???

Surely this is the simple basis of why a forum ends up with a core group that sticks to it and shares all sorts.

If that is even somewhat the case then why do we shy away from discussion.

Surely we are adults, have demonstrated that we can share views in a civil fashion and as such allow each other to hear alternative views to our own which, as in my case has improved my quality of life and outlook.

I say it again, i think as a population group, both Canadians and Americans dont quiet realize how valuable it is for others to hear their views especially once one comes across a group of people that are in my view pretty balanced.

How do you all cope with the idea that you cannot discuss certain topics?

I certainly dont have experience of loads of forums so perhaps thats what i should be doing to get a taste of what some of you have probably experienced at prior places.

I would welcome though hearing some views around this subject.

I tend to have a deja vu feeling about this self censorship.

There is no question that there is serious intellectual capacity on this forum, dont you feel that it should be allowed to manifest itself.

I dunno maybe some of you could do with a stint living under the kind of regime i did. Seems i appreciate some of your rights more than you guys do.:dunno:

I would welcome any feedback either public or private. Help me iron out my head or put a little air in it if you think i am a flat head.:)
 
Rob you will find that most everyone here will talk on any subject to anyone face to face. The problem lies in the typed word and the ability to hide behind a computer.
May of us have been members on other sites that allow one to talk on any and all topics. We have seen just how fast a typed conversation can degrade into nothing more than a flaming war between parties. It has happened right here on this form and we have lost member because of it.
So while It can be called censorship. It is for the greater good of the site. On the most part we come here to talk about woodworking. Whats going on in the world and what god you pray to are for a different site.:thumb::thumb::thumb:
Hope that helps clear it up for you. Or I just made it clear as mud:thumb::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Rob,
What has caused all of the wars in History. I believe the answer is Religion and politics. Not everyone can discuss these issues in a non passionate way nor does everyone agree on these two subject so in order to keep peace on the forum we decided from the begining that these subject would not be allowed. IMHO that is the reason why.
 
Rob you will find that most everyone here will talk on any subject to anyone face to face. The problem lies in the typed word and the ability to hide behind a computer.
May of us have been members on other sites that allow one to talk on any and all topics. We have seen just how fast a typed conversation can degrade into nothing more than a flaming war between parties. It has happened right here on this form and we have lost member because of it.
So while It can be called censorship. It is for the greater good of the site. On the most part we come here to talk about woodworking. Whats going on in the world and what god you pray to are for a different site.:thumb::thumb::thumb:
Hope that helps clear it up for you. Or I just made it clear as mud:thumb::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Don't think it can be said any better than what Chuck said.:thumb: :thumb:
 
Don't think it can be said any better than what Chuck said.:thumb: :thumb:

agreed:thumb:

This group of guys and gals has tough me a few things and I have learned to keep my mouth shut. Although I bit my tong a few times here I have found the PM button.
One thing though is I do not post as much because of the censorship. A lot of my feeling and my faith go into what I have to say and they are not welcome here. So I backed off.
 
Well said Chuck. It think since this is a woodworking forum...we should chat about woodworking. I find off-topic to be fun and a resource to help, for lack of better term, bond us as a community. I do not possess the ability to be dispassionate about either my faith or my political views. An example; 2 of the most different people in the world are Vaughn and me. When we visit, we don't talk about religion or politics, we do wood work and talk about mundane stuff...why ruin a good friendship? On the other side of the coin...I have an old friend, several in fact, and that's all we do is talk politics and religion...and scotch! That is the nature of that friendship. As Jeff said, typing can be lacking in emotion and inflection. I can’t tell if someone is mad or glad behind the screen.
But this doesn’t leave us devoid of an outlet; PM or email or phone calls are all available to us on this forum to address other things unrelated to woodwork that may cause others offense. We all have a remote and can change the channel if we don’t like the show.
 
add what jeff just posted plus the pirates post, and you got it nailed.

Id like to add that having the option to discuss anything else in the world besides religion or politics, leaves a wide variety of subjects available to keep the flow going. (like nascar to roast beef)
 
Hi Rob!

Always enjoyment reading your post. But now I do not disagree with you. I think the politics will infect your relationships. Provides an opportunity for misunderstanding. As much as people are good friends. And that I have seen here. Believe me: I know what self-censorship, how to read between rows. I think this does not go into it. I write you a private message much politics as much as you want. Greatest admirers:
Jozsef

PS: I hope I did not understand the rest of the problem :huh::thumb:
 
Rob you will find that most everyone here will talk on any subject to anyone face to face. The problem lies in the typed word and the ability to hide behind a computer.
May of us have been members on other sites that allow one to talk on any and all topics. We have seen just how fast a typed conversation can degrade into nothing more than a flaming war between parties. It has happened right here on this form and we have lost member because of it.
So while It can be called censorship. It is for the greater good of the site. On the most part we come here to talk about woodworking. Whats going on in the world and what god you pray to are for a different site.:thumb::thumb::thumb:
Hope that helps clear it up for you. Or I just made it clear as mud:thumb::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Chuck you get my vote :D

honestly, you knocked that one out of the park! :clap:
 
Ditto on everything.

There was a saying when I was a kid, to never discuss Politics, Religion or Diets. I think the world has moved on in regards to diets (after all, don't most of us brag about the pounds we haven't lost yet and post our little measuring sticks? :rofl::rofl::rofl:)

When it comes to the P&R, most folks are already set in their ways and will never budge, so it serves no purpose to try to sway them. Even to voice your view would not seem that offensive, but all it does is stir up those with opposite passions and neither side will give in.

I've de-friended people on FB because they only want to talk politics that I don't agree with. Got suckered in a few times, but pretty much don't entertain it anymore. And it's sad...they are folks I'd love to sit down and have a beer with, would welcome them to my house, etc.

It's just safer to stay away from such subjects in a place like this (or in general).
 
Ditto on everything.

There was a saying when I was a kid, to never discuss Politics, Religion or Diets. I think the world has moved on in regards to diets (after all, don't most of us brag about the pounds we haven't lost yet and post our little measuring sticks? :rofl::rofl::rofl:)

When it comes to the P&R, most folks are already set in their ways and will never budge, so it serves no purpose to try to sway them. Even to voice your view would not seem that offensive, but all it does is stir up those with opposite passions and neither side will give in.

I've de-friended people on FB because they only want to talk politics that I don't agree with. Got suckered in a few times, but pretty much don't entertain it anymore. And it's sad...they are folks I'd love to sit down and have a beer with, would welcome them to my house, etc.

It's just safer to stay away from such subjects in a place like this (or in general).

so that why yu defreinded me:eek::eek: here i thought it was because i ate to much last time i was there:) rob, i can understand where your coming from but as chuck has written,, i have been misunderstood and have misunderstood others, typed words.. it has and can cause more turmoil than its worth.. i use the pm or the phone to voice thoughts that i feel necessary to convey to others rather than here publicly..
 
whooopie that means i can get another chance at those atbs and a cold drink and i can say hi to that lonesome horse again and if yu havnt got your stool up there yet i can haul it up to the top for you:)
 
...When it comes to the P&R, most folks are already set in their ways and will never budge, so it serves no purpose to try to sway them. Even to voice your view would not seem that offensive, but all it does is stir up those with opposite passions and neither side will give in...

That pretty much sums up my take on it. I tend to only talk about P&R with family or those who I know have opinions similar to mine. I see no need in trying to debate the details with others who are already set in their opinions, especially on the Internet. I have some good friends (in real life and on the web) with whom I strongly disagree on certain subjects, and I see no reason to foul up the friendship just because of a difference of opinion on none or two subjects. (I didn't know Jim and I were so different, so that approach must have worked for both of us.) :p I try to do a lot of reading and research on controversial subjects just so I know where other peoples' heads are at on the issue, then I form my own opinions, but generally keep them pretty close to my chest.
 
Rob,

You're never going to get me to say people can't communicate well using the written word! :type:

The real problem is that people don't truly respect each other. We're often not good at listening, and most of us just want to say what we think, and be told we're right. Because, of course, we *are* right! Aren't we? ;)

The real test is this: can we sit in a room and talk about these things with all sorts of people who have wildly different views than ours? Most of us can't, and we know this. So we make this deal, in the interest of peace. If we didn't, we'd make the food fight in Animal House look like tea time at Buckingham Palace! :rofl:

It's a rational decision, really. It's not censorship, it's, um, civilization... ;)

Thanks,

Bill
 
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In discussing religion or politics, I prefer to do it by the written word instead of in person. And, of course, I prefer to do it with someone who can address the subject logically and without a lot of emotion.

When discussing a subject in person, the advantage goes to the person who can think faster on his or her feet, or is more experienced in addressing the subject. When discussed in written form, each person gets lots of time to think through the idea under discussion and to do research, if needed, prior to responding.

If the purpose of the discussion is to explore the beliefs of each person and the reasons for holding those beliefs, and to learn from the other person, I'll take a written discussion any day over in-person discussion.

I don't know why, as a society, we avoid those subjects. If someone has strong beliefs, they should have good, logical, rational reasons for those beliefs and they should be able to explain those beliefs to someone else. And if they don't have strong beliefs, having a discussion with another person may help them sort out their beliefs.

Mike
 
I for one have a high regard for discussions on politics and religion. I am pretty much ready to go at any time. ( I'm Irish) In my humble opinion they are 2 of the most important topics that form a society. I have had my mind changed by some of those discussions and have learned a lot from them. I figure the founding fathers spent a lot of time jaw wagging at the start of the USA and it looks like they did a pretty good job of it.

but I do agree with the forum policy because I have also seen a lot of drive by posts on other forums and it really isn't peaceful.

Any time you want to get together for a barley pop + dough nuts ( a slight jab at my Canadian brother) and chew the fat is fine by me. :D:wave:
 
Thank you all for taking a moment to reply. I appreciate and respect your views. Helped me understand where you guys are coming from.

Doesnt put to rest some of my concerns that have nothing to do with the actual subject of politics or opening up of our forum. I would not want to see it change by the way. :thumb:
 
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