I hate beaurocracy!!

John Pollman

Member
Messages
1,332
Location
Rochester Hills, MI
I've got an almost $10K deck job to do but I can't even get started because the city appears to be stalling on my permit. It's been THREE WEEKS today since I dropped off the application. Everything was in line and all required paperwork was turned in per their check list. I checked last Wed. (two weeks after the application was made) and was told it was "on hold" because the plan reviewer still had to look at it.

It's an 8' high deck over a patio area on a walk out basement. By code, I could have gotten away with 2x6 joists 24" o.c., but I used 2x8 16" o.c. Could have used 4x6 posts but I used 6x6. The beam could have been a double 2x10 but I used a TRIPLE 2x12.

The deck it's replacing was to code but it was a little "springy". I guaranteed the owner that the new one would be rock solid. It should take the plan reviewer a very short time to see that it's substantial construction that exceeds the code requirements.

It's been several years since I've built a deck but I've done many over the years and have never had a permit take longer than a week. Three weeks is UNACCEPTABLE! I find it very hard to believe that the building department is over run with building permit applications in this lousy economy.

OK, rant mode off. Time to return to normal. :)

John
 
I feel your pain. I am doing a sample Park bench for on the of the towns in the area. They have 30 to do, the benches cost 1,200 - 1,500 new refinishing about 650-700 and they may want to by new.
 
my son is dealing with some permit issues also in his new home and there are only 2 speeds the local town people have, really, really, freekin slow, and then really, really, really, freekin slow.
I feel ya.
 
Well I just got back from city hall a little while ago. I gave the info to the woman behind the counter and she said she'd check on it. She walked into the back and was gone a little over five minutes. She returned and said that they're so busy that it's just taking a long time to process all of the permits. (I think that's a complete line of BULL!)

She said that the plan reviewer pulled it out and would try to work on it today and that it may be done tomorrow. I'm hopeful but not optimistic that will happen. It shouldn't take a competent plan reviewer more than fifteen minutes to review a simple deck plan and either approve or reject it.

You can't tell me that the building department is completely backed up for three weeks on permit requests in this LOUSY economy!

We shall see what happens.

John
 
The problem may be in the cut-backs in staffing in all government departments. They may have laid off or transferred some of the people working in the permits dept and now not have enough staff to do the job.

Staffing cuts are getting serious in government. We all want services but there's not enough money to pay for it.

Mike
 
I hear that and it could be part of the problem. But if it's money, they're certainly making a bunch on permits. This is a 32'x10' deck and it's going to cost $535 when pick up the permit! Now that includes a $225 refundable bond, but in the end it is still going to cost $310 in permit fees just to build a simple deck. I wonder what the total cost of permits would be to build an entire house. I'm sure it's in the thousands!

John
 
Staffing cuts are getting serious in government. We all want services but there's not enough money to pay for it.

Mike

I think Mike is on target. Without degenerating into a total political rant, we are reaping the result of our years of clamoring for Wal-Mart prices and suffering our distorted expectation of Nordstrom service at those prices.

Any of us who have survived the cuts in the staffing base are the walking wounded. We still get a paycheck but the scope of our responsibilities change. Often more is expected at the same or less pay. A bit of attitude will slip into even the best of us.

Keep on fighting the good fight :thumb:. I'll hope for speedy processing of your paperwork.
 
The problem may be in the cut-backs in staffing in all government departments. They may have laid off or transferred some of the people working in the permits dept and now not have enough staff to do the job.

Staffing cuts are getting serious in government. We all want services but there's not enough money to pay for it.

Mike

while I agree with Mr. Henderson, I think it goes past that.
Most city and state workers are ticked off they trimmed the staffs, meaning they have to pick up the slack.
 
doesn't make a difference who is in, it is the basic bureaucratic mentality. once a bureaucrat gets something in thier heads, you almost need a baseball bat to get them to see the light. case in point, the flooding of the hockey rinks here at the local playground. our dad knows more about flooding the rinks than the local bureaucrats (only been doing it for the last 26+ years now). they got it into thier tiny lil brains from some college trained chimp, that you couldn't get ice from flooding, until the ground temperature was at freezing. our dad told them that they were full of ice, and that he was going to flood when the air temps were below freezing. he knew, and they didn't, that once the temps are below freezing at night, it's possible to start building up the ice sheet, no matter what the ground temperature. that is why year after year, that playground has 3 rinks up and ready, with at least 3 inches of ice, while the rest of the playgrounds, are waiting for the ground to freeze. year after year, the bureaucrats say it can't be done, and they don't know how he does it, and he explains it to them how, year after year. but since they have what this college trained chimp told them stuck in thier minds (he is and expert after all, but with no practical flooding experience), what our dad tells them doesn't sink too deep. it's the best example of the bureaucratic mentality....:D:thumb::rolleyes::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
We had our well pump replaced this past Monday. The county here has been getting funny ideas about what you need a permit to do any more. Mostly a money grab. They wanted you to get permits just to replace a hot water heater.

So anyway the well guy said they had been threatening to require permits to replace well pumps. You can imagine how well that would go over. Your pump goes out on a friday. You call the well guy and he says, well, I can't apply for a permit until monday, and who knows how long it will take to get it approved :doh:

As it was our's went out on Saturday. The guy came out first thing monday and replaced it.
 
Brent,
it is nothing but a money grab.

About twelve years ago I remodeled the kitchen in a house. I got the permit and when the inspector showed up and asked where the permit was. I told him it was in the front window as it should be. He said "no, the plumbing permit". I was stumped and asked him "plumbing permit". He said yes, because I was replacing the sink that I needed a plumbing permit. Apparently the money I'd already spent for a permit for a complete kitchen remodel wasn't enough. I guess a "complete kitchen remodel" wouldn't normally include replacing the sink too. He then said that even if you just replace a faucet, you need a permit. What a complete JOKE!

John
 
We need a permit to replace a light fixture. A different permit to replace a toilet. Another one to re-roof your house. And the funny thing is no one comes to inspect the work or does one have to be licensed to do said work.:doh::doh::doh:
But at least I have to buy a special bag from the town to throw my trash away in. And 9 out of 10 of you would choke on your coffee to see my property tax bill.
 
I should count myself fortunate.

We just got 3 bids for about 600 sf of concrete flat work for patios and walkways, another bid for 800 sf of driveway. All 3 bidders stated no permits required so long as they are not changing the structure of the house.
 
I understand your frustration. It seems, locally, that it is often easier to get forgiveness than to get permission. Of course, if I tried to do something that way the powers that be would decide to make an example with me and really hammer me.:(
 
You can only push the "forgiveness/permission" situation so far.

Locally a homeowner on a hilly lot was having trouble getting approval to build what he wanted, so he scaled back the plans and got them approved.

He then built what he wanted all along. When he called for inspections at the END of the process he'd gone WAY beyond his plans. This back and forth over this has been in front of the Planning Board for YEARS. The township is killing them with making them hire experts and doing studies on the homeowners dime.

I think that the local government here is going a little too far in general with their rules, but I understand their position on the case above.

Cheers

Jim
 
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