Another new lesson in US history

Rob Keeble

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Last night we had History channel continue the US Story history program.

This episode covered the civil war.

What was news to me was how much of an effect emergence of technology had on the Norths War effort.

Railroads being used for logistic supply and troop deployment and mobility.

Telegraph being used for intelligence gathering and command and control.

The minie ball and rifling playing a huge role in the numbers killed on both sides.

Then the emergence of media and photography and their effect on the war as far as public opinion was concerned.


What is an oddity to me is the tactics used on the battle field still followed the old convention of lining up facing each other. One would have thought that after the War of Independence when guerilla warefare played such a key role, that this would have found its way into the teachings of Westpoint but i guess not.

One only hopes that a documentary like this which is peppered with celebrities comments ????? (why i dont know surely historians would have been more credible) is technically accurate. I dont have time to look up all the details and check on their facts.
 
The North was far more industrialized than the South which played a big factor in the outcome. The South for the most part had to rely on imports from foreign governments for much of their supplies. Blockading Southern ports by the North had devastating results.

Those tactics were still used in WWI. Why, I have no clue. Seems like a total disregard for human life.

My wife is a middle school english and social studies teacher. The civil war is a big part of her curriculum. Not being a civil war buff myself, I'm more of a revolutionary war historian, I have learned some real interesting little known facts from her about both the North and South.:thumb:
 
Not being a civil war buff myself [...] I have learned some real interesting little known facts [...] about both the North and South.:thumb:

Like, for instance, the fact that during the war the North kept certain prisoners (deserters, etc) at Fort Jefferson on the Dry Tortugas islands (in the Gulf of Mexico, about 90 miles west of Key West)?

DryTortugas_Location.gif


DryTortugas_FortJefferson.jpg


I was flabbergasted when I learned that tidbit a few years ago. :eek:
 
One only hopes that a documentary like this which is peppered with celebrities comments ????? (why i dont know surely historians would have been more credible) is technically accurate. I dont have time to look up all the details and check on their facts.

Maybe it is a political thing. It attempts to give celebrities some validity and makes them look knowledgeable so when they give an opinion it seems more credible. I agree with Brad Pit after he did the movie about Tibet:
"You shouldn't speak until you know what you're talking about. That's why I get uncomfortable with interviews. Reporters ask me what I feel China should do about Tibet. Who cares what I think China should do? I'm an actor! They hand me a script. I act. I'm here for entertainment. Basically, when you whittle everything away, I'm a grown man who puts on makeup."
— Brad Pitt

I love the movies Brad is in but I take his advice when he talks about anything else.

They might think it makes it more appealing to the viewer to have celebrities do cameos.

Asking an actor for information or opinions like asking an the weather man about brain surgery just because he has a degree. The actor doesn't necessarily have a degree.
 
What is an oddity to me is the tactics used on the battle field still followed the old convention of lining up facing each other. One would have thought that after the War of Independence when guerilla warefare played such a key role, that this would have found its way into the teachings of Westpoint but i guess not.

Rob,

It's a truism of military history that generals always fight the last war. But they weren't looking back on the revolution, they studied instead the Napoleonic wars. Line up, concentrate artillery on a specific part of the line, use infantry to rush through and divide the opponent's forces. That's exactly what they tried to do at Gettysburg, look at Pickett's charge. And it nearly worked.

But these guys weren't dummies, they were really smart people. And when they saw that old tactics were outdated, they invented new ones. It was Grant and Jackson who showed the value of maneuverability. Lots of flanking movements, lots of repositioning. Jackson once moved his army 650 miles in a month and a half, winning six encounters along the way. Grant was even better at that.

Eventually, to counter the success of these tactics, the two sides pretty much perfected trench warfare, which was the standard mode until the invention of the tank. The american revolution didn't add much to military history (despite what the locals say) but the civil war is still studied around the world...

Thanks,

Bill
 
The american revolution didn't add much to military history (despite what the locals say

You calling me a "loco"? ;)
Rifleman's tactics changed much with regard to how wars are fought. The old ways were not deserted completely but stealth tactics played big roles. And still do.
BTW, the unfeeling sacrifice of soldiers was a carry over of a class driven society. Common folks were considered expendable by the upper class. I'm not sure that thinking has not left us completely.
 
Good point Frank. One aspect that fascinated me after visiting the Gettysburg Museum was the money paid to troops. Well after some research I learnt about three new recruitment terms, bounty, substitition and commutation.

All three bring us to the point of money. First one uses money to entice the poor to give up their life, second and third has money buying its way out of a tight spot.

How many today sign up because of the cost of an education or the lack of work in their area?

Privates pay in civil war was $11 per month. Lucky if they were paid every second month in most cases once every four months.

Estimates for the pay for the whole civil war including bounties paid by states run at around $2500 Million or 2.5 Billion whichever you prefer.
 
Grant was called the first modern general. The tactics of the 18th century were destroyed by the machine gun and the use of improved artillery, including gas.

Lee, while I love him dearly (my ancestors fought in the 25th Virginia) was basically a defensive expert. The times he went on the attack and crossed the Patomac he was defeated--Antitiem and Gettysburg. (sorry about the spelling errors).

Other inventions of the civil war include the mimeograph and instant coffee. Another interesting point--every state minus one (South Carolina) fielded regiments who fought for the other side.

Also, Lee could never call the Union soldiers the enemy. He always called them--"those people" or some such.

Still after all these years fundamental issues about "states rights" have still not been resolved.
 
Last night we had History channel continue the US Story history program.


What is an oddity to me is the tactics used on the battle field still followed the old convention of lining up facing each other. One would have thought that after the War of Independence when guerilla warefare played such a key role, that this would have found its way into the teachings of Westpoint but i guess not.

One only hopes that a documentary like this which is peppered with celebrities comments ????? (why i dont know surely historians would have been more credible) is technically accurate. I dont have time to look up all the details and check on their facts.

Gentleman and men of pride and honer of that time did not hide form the fight. :thumb:
 
I was discussing the battle of Gettysburg with my sons just last night. I read an article a few years ago where an historian dug up a pertinent fact about Picket's charge. It seems that one union officer realized that with the situation where soldiers lined up and shot at each other often at less than 100 yards, that a musket firing buck and ball loads was putting 4 projectiles down range for every shot fired. He specifically requested that his troops be armed with these weapons and shot. His were the troops that were in the center of the union lines receiving the brunt of Picket's charge. Rifles are more accurate generally but there is no substitute for massed firepower.

I was discussing the importance of historical lessons learned with my sons. There are many things that happened during WW2 that causes one to scratch the noggin. Like the Japanese rigid military philosophies that caused them all kinds of problems managing their logistics. But that's another story.
 
Paul on a different note seems this concept of charge down the middle must be written in the pages of education at Westpoint.

Theres a TV show where they use graphics to show the reenactment of tank battles of bygone wars.

They had one showing a incident in North Africa where the allies had driven Rommel all the way to Tripoli and the US had landed a significant force of tanks and men in Tunisia.

Well Rommel had the high ground to the west of Tripoli and US commanders with fresh tank recuits never seen battle and new Shermans went charging down the middle of a particular pass only to be picked off by Rommel and his new MK4 tanks.

Trouble is they did this twice within two weeks and lost somewhere over 100 tanks. 45 first time out and second time the whole squadron was wiped out. They charged straight into German 88mm flak guns that had a range of 2KM and were hidden in Catus.

Now you examine the tactics of the Boers in the 1900's their approach to commando style raids and guerilla fighting along with a very efficient kill per bullet ratio led to them forcing the British into what we today call "tropop surges" to take them on. The only way they won was to get to their woman and children. Camouflage was also a key player in the war. Its was the first time the Brits realized they needed to shed the red tunics with white chest crossing bands used ammunition and decoration. All he Boers did was aim for the center of the X and bingo they got their man.
Its also where the SA version of the term Redneck comes from. In Afrikaans the Boers called the english Rooinecks because their original helmet did not provide cover for their necks which being english and hardly seeing the sun, got burnt red in the African sun. They then extended the rear of their pith type helmet to provide more cover. All they needed to do was look at what the French Foreighn legion was doing.:D

Seems we dont learn from some of these lessons.

War is not for gentlemen ......gentlemen. ;)
 
Bob I numbered 7 books which I read all of them I could not put down. So imagine a slow reader or someone who very seldom reads spending the time to read these. If you like history you will really enjoy all of these.


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The Writer's Digest Course in Article Writing, 1962
The Great Auk, 1963
A Time of Terror: The Great Dayton Flood, 1965
*The Silent Sky:The Incredible Extinction of the Passenger Pigeon, 1965
The Writer's Digest Course in Short Story Writing, 1965
Wild Season, 1967
The Frontiersmen, 1967 #1
Bayou Backwaters, 1967
*The Crossbreed, 1968
Blue Jacket: War Chief of the Shawnees, 1968
*The King Snake, 1968
*The Dreaming Tree, 1968
Wilderness Empire, 1968 #2
In Search of a Whale, 1969
The Conquerors, 1970 #3
Incident at Hawk's Hill, 1971
*The Court-Martial of Daniel Boone, 1973
The Owls of North America, 1973
*Tecumseh!, 1975 #4
*The HAB Theory, 1976
The Wilderness War, 1978 #5
The Wading Birds of North America, 1978
*Savage Journey, 1979
*Song of the Wild, 1980
Whattizzit?, 1981
Gateway to Empire, 1982 #6
*Johnny Logan: Shawnee Spy, 1982
*The Dark Green Tunnel, 1983
*The Wand, 1984
*The Scarlet Mansion, 1985
*Earth Treasures - Northeastern Quadrant, 1985
*Earth Treasures - Southeastern Quadrant, 1985
*Earth Treasures - Northwestern Quadrant, 1986
*Earth Treasures - Southwestern Quadrant, 1987
Twilight Of Empire, 1988
A Sorrow in Our Heart:: The Life of Tecumseh, 1992
That Dark and Bloody River: Chronicles of the Ohio River Valley, 1995 #7
The World of Opals, 1997
Return to Hawk's Hill, 1998
 
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