giving others the oppertunity

Mike,

You've repeatedly made your opinion known on this subject.

I have no problem with your opinion on hunting.

What I do take exception to is the insulting and derogatory way in which you express it.

I'm sorry you take it as insulting and derogatory. I certainly do not mean it in that fashion. The best response to my opinion and belief is to express your belief(s) and the reasons you believe as you do. It is through the exchange of opinions (or beliefs) and the logic and rational behind those beliefs that we can all come to a better understanding of the issue.

Mike

[I must admit I am flabbergasted that wounded soldiers would want to do the same to animals - that the suffering, pain and fear they experienced did not give them more empathy.]
 
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Perhaps in another thread Mike.

This is straying from the initial point of the thread, which was Dave's helping out some of our veterans in a way that He and they appreciate.

Letting it devolve into a debate on the merits and morality of hunting I think does a gross disservice to Dave and those veterans.
 
Mike,

You've repeatedly made your opinion known on this subject.

I have no problem with your opinion on hunting.

What I do take exception to is the insulting and derogatory way in which you express it.
Brent i've been wanting to say that for the last year when i was a mod. I held my tonge but now i don't have to.Mike how can killing something like killing a deer be so immoral, and yet we send beef to slatter by the thousands. IMHO At least the wild life have a fighting chance. No i'm not a big hunter but if i chose to, and i do some times, i will. Would you rather have a man go to a store and buy meat than get it fresh the way it was meant to be?:huh:
 
OK it's time for us to all get friendly and NOT go off where we get all upset, that helps NO ONE. WE all have our opinions, yes I have mine also, but please it is time to be civil and not go crazy. HEY I get shop time tonight:D
 
Brent i've been wanting to say that for the last year when i was a mod. I held my tonge but now i don't have to.Mike how can killing something like killing a deer be so immoral, and yet we send beef to slatter by the thousands. IMHO At least the wild life have a fighting chance. No i'm not a big hunter but if i chose to, and i do some times, i will. Would you rather have a man go to a store and buy meat than get it fresh the way it was meant to be?:huh:
The difference is in the intention of the person doing the killing. I believe it is not immoral to kill an animal for quite a number of reasons. What's immoral is to kill an animal for the pleasure of killing.

I think we can all agree that the young boy who captures pet cats and tortures them to death is performing an immoral act. In fact, there are laws against such things. But it is not immoral for a vet to put down a sick cat. The difference is in the reason why the killing is done.

In my moral universe, people who hunt for the pleasure of the kill are performing an immoral act.

Mike
 
This thread is about someone giving back to the people who have sacrificed for their country. Not about your personal beliefs. How about getting off your moral soap box for a change.
 
you've done an absolute good mike, don't listen to a word from that * ....

??????????????????????? I don't understand Dan, don't know if I want to get an explanation. Could you take out peanuthead and at least put a name to it so it doesn't seem inflammatory or deraugatory?


WOW OH WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tom has the right idea and suggestion. Mike, thanks for your opinion. It is documented. Now, please can we continue with the regularly scheduled programming???!!!!!!!

Dave, congratulations and way to go on going out of your way to make a day special for those that have sacrificed so much that we can argue in safety in our country. Please convey my thanks to them for what they did. I would hope if all of us could come up with some gifts, be it boxes, pens, handmade knives, cutting boards whatever, as a family to give to you to donate to these special people for what they have done for us. Thank you again Dave, your efforts invoke personal opinions which is one of the things these soldiers fight for. I thank them and you and all soldiers, past, present and future.
 
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It seems to me, and Im quite sure of it, Dave H, enjoys hunting.
I personally do not because I would have a hard time pulling a trigger on an animal unless my family was starving.
It doesnt bother me at all that people enjoy hunting. It is legal, and until the govt of this great country we live in(nothing political, so dont make it out to be)decides to ban hunting, to each his own.

Its not your opinion Mike, its the delivery.

I admire your ability to post so clear and precise, Im not as intelligent as you, I just cant do it.

I find sometimes, an opinion might fall on that line thats between opinion/insult, or so some can seem.

Its the way people perceive it, and reading text on boards can be perceived very differently by different people.
 
Mike years ago I had a wounded Vet from Maine come down just because he heard of our hunts and he could not believe all the deer we have. I think him and his friend went home with 4 doe's for the freezer.
The smiles we get from these guys are awesome. Young men who were an inch from death I'm a vet myself but never saw action during. when Each one of these boys come here they seem more like a son to me. I am as proud of them as I am my own boys.
Thanks for keeping this civil guys.
Time to go home and paint.
 
Its not your opinion Mike, its the delivery.
I try to be logical and precise, and not emotional. I'm sorry if my "tone" comes off as offensive - I certainly do not intend to be offensive, simply to offer my opinion and the rational and reasons I have that opinion. I welcome hearing other's opinions, especially if they are well thought through and presented in a logical and rational manner. I hope that my arguments will strike a cord with some people, especially if they haven't thought through the moral issues involved in the killing of animals.

And just for the record, I am a veteran of the US Army, with service in Vietnam, 1970-1971 (14 months, actually).

Mike
 
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Mike,

It's not your opinion that I have an issue with, it's when you make moral judgments on the people that participate in the activity.

I have a vegan neighbor here in the valley that runs a farm animal sanctuary. I've helped him a number of times on his sanctuary and we have very differing opinions as you can imagine on the treatment of animals and hunting. We have come to an understanding on each other views and we manage to do so without discord.

By judgement, I mean when you say something like "Killing for pleasure is the height of immorality". To me, that comes off as a judgment and an insult to many of our family here who I consider to be of the the highest moral character and who choose to hunt.

If you said something like "I personally can not see me taking the life of an animal", that would come off more like an opinion, and I doubt any would have an issue with it.
 
well dave, i have written you on the side and am now gonna voice my thoughts public.. first off i had never heard of wounded warroir organization, and was introduced to it in Mississippi last spring. i was invited to the final group get together and meal .. there were 15 of them. i was able to see an hear the stories these vets had to tell and this was a turkey hunting event mixed in with some fishing.. some of these guys were return quests.. they all were there for a week full of outdoor activities and great food and comaraudery..they had been invited to come, they didnt have to come. the thankfulness they showed to all of those who contributed to this event was overwhelming.. mike and any others that may not have been able to actually converse with some of these guys and gals that have been to one of these kind of events need to do so.. your ideals of hunting or fishing may not change but you will see as i did, the tears and the total enjoyment of hunting or fishing or the hospitalty and good food and fun..knowing that many do still care for what they have done for us and our country and the wonderful feeling of having been able to help these military personal out in some small way like dave is doing..
 
There are plenty of people who work wood professionally too, we don't need to work wood ourselves for own pleasure. We could just go to the store and buy our wooden things made for us. Just like our meat and vegetables.

Arguing morality on the internet is like wrestling a pig.

Even if you win, the pig likes it, and you're covered in pig poop.
 
Mike,

It's not your opinion that I have an issue with, it's when you make moral judgments on the people that participate in the activity.

I have a vegan neighbor here in the valley that runs a farm animal sanctuary. I've helped him a number of times on his sanctuary and we have very differing opinions as you can imagine on the treatment of animals and hunting. We have come to an understanding on each other views and we manage to do so without discord.

By judgement, I mean when you say something like "Killing for pleasure is the height of immorality". To me, that comes off as a judgment and an insult to many of our family here who I consider to be of the the highest moral character and who choose to hunt.

If you said something like "I personally can not see me taking the life of an animal", that would come off more like an opinion, and I doubt any would have an issue with it.
Okay, I'll watch my wording.

Mike
 
Dave i think any effort to encourage vets whether wounded or not is commendable. Yes these people were / are paid volunteers but they do a job that few others choose to do. When it gets nasty and some loose their life and others loose limbs and sanity, and then return home after its over society at large is too quick to forget these people. Just because they were involved in war does not mean they were not an outdoorsman before the event.
In my view facilitating getting them back outdoors is admirable and in my view would help their healing in more ways than one.
Personally i think we do our species a diservice when we frown on hunting. Far too many today dont have a clue where their food comes from and were we to have some significant disruption of the foodchain just watch how quickly everyone would turn to a hunter. I have also not met a hunter or outdoorsman yet that does not have respect or admiration for the animals both wild and domestic. We are part of nature, we are positioned at the top of the food chain. With the removal of the normal predators there is a natural need for us to be involved in thinning the heard. In South Africa due to confinement to a single area albeit large, elephants have to be culled as complete families from time to time and that is for their own preservation. Hunting is by no means as easy and automatic as ESPN would like us to think. Animals are also not as dumb as often portrayed. I dont see it as a matter of seeking pleasure from the kill as much as a test of our natural abilities to warrant our place at the top of the foodchain. Their is respect for the animal that outwits us as much as their is respect for the benefit we derive by being able to outwit them in their own environment.
Now if we talk about some dimwit generals in the SA army who saw fit to slaughter wild animals from a helicopter gunship yeah i say they immoral and personally i would have derived a great deal of pleasure hunting them in turn with a helicopter gunship and making sure their bloodline ceased.
But the skills to hunt for food handed down through generations i think can hardly be called immoral. Were i in the animal kingdom i would say what is immoral is that we humans have allowed our human population to double in the last 50 years and in so doing encroach on all animals. Were it not for hunters half the species on earth would cease to exist because of mans incessant increase in population and the demands that our comfy lifestyles place on the natural resources thats immoral. ok thats my 5 cents.

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Rob you are right on !
I am very proud of my Cherokee heritage and the knowledge of my grandfather and uncles hunting abilities is something I want to pass down to my sons. Ol Daddy Jim would walk in with dinner in hand many a weekend when we would spend the weekend. I grew up on game meat, my sons grew up on game meat and venison. Funny story, my oldest son got married at 28 . One Saturday after he got married he called and said: dad you got to come over! I just cooked up a porterhouse steak. These things ate good! But I like deer better.
We never bought meat from the suppermarket hence his excitement.
Mike when I say like minded , I mean guys who hunt for the meat. You can not buy whitetail deer meat. So hunting it for ourselves for needy families. I usually will also add when talking with the anti hunting segment of our society is to ask, what have you dome for the needy or the wounded warrier. My guess is nothing. Like all the rest of the anti's, find out what is in the heart of the person before you judge them.
 
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