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my new radial arm saw

Don Baer said:
Keith I very strongly suspect that it is connected for low voltage. In the morning I'll give you a few thing to check It's late now and I need a clear head to explain to you what to check.
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Thanks. I am probably going off to work early tomorrow. give me as much info as you can spare and I will try to digest it when I get back in the afternoon

I was very anxious to get started and I did a quick test run and discovered that there seems to be a problem (I knew this was all to good to be true). I wired it the same way it was wired when I received it. I had doubt that reversing the poles would do much harm on a unit like this. when i hit the stat switch the small motor comes on but only stays on as long as I hold the on button in. The magnetic switch does not move. when i release the on switch the motor slowly spins to a halt. If I push in the on switch in and then use a rubber mallet to push in the magnetic switch then the magnetic switch will stay closed and everything seems to run but I do not appear to be getting power to the outlet.

so far I'm really sad. Was hoping this would all work out nice and simple. I feel like I'm gonna learn a lot of great info. Hope its not an expensive lesson.
 
Keith, before you actually crank the saw up, please put on some good hearing protection. I have an 18" Delta RAS and when the blade gets up to speed it has a high pitched ringing that is really loud, like you are standing in front of a jet engine. Trying to shut off the RAS and keep both hands over your ears is not fun. DAMHIK! A saw this size in a small shop can be loud, where as when it is put in an industrial shop building (large space) it is not as loud, relatively speaking. Good Luck!. Rob
 
Rob Damon said:
Keith, before you actually crank the saw up, please put on some good hearing protection. I have an 18" Delta RAS and when the blade gets up to speed it has a high pitched ringing that is really loud, like you are standing in front of a jet engine. Trying to shut off the RAS and keep both hands over your ears is not fun. DAMHIK! A saw this size in a small shop can be loud, where as when it is put in an industrial shop building (large space) it is not as loud, relatively speaking. Good Luck!. Rob
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Excellent point. I am very big on ear protection. I always use good plugs when I amd working with the planer. I can't wait to hear that "high pitched ringing". It will be music to my ear plug:thumb:ged ears.
 
Don Baer said:
Keith, I haven't forgotten you I just need to make a sketch of a wiring diagram that should help you with your trouble shooting.
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HEy don. Take your time. I think i have figured out a lot. I still want to see your sketch because I want to make sure everything is hooked up properly. I think this thing may have been rigged.

My findings so far are. The outlet plug is bad. that is why it was testing as no power. I tested the 3 lines (t 1,2,3) at the junction box and got something like 260 across t1,t2, 220 across t1,t3 l and 250 across t3,t1 ( I may not have that in the right order or the exact voltages but it along that idea) .

I also believe I have a bad ground. if I tested say t1 to ground i got 0 but if I tested t1 and used the motor case as ground I got 130. same with one of the other legs and I think the t3 would read 220 when tested with the motor as ground. Again these numbers are from memory.

I also believe the panel over the magnetic starter was taken off because you have to push the starter in manually. I don't think this is the correct way for it to be unless the cover had a switch or throw that would push the starter and it just broke so they got rid of it.

So right now it is hooked up where the line from my breaker to the wall outlet is at least 8 gage (maybe 6 I still cant remember) and there is a 30amp breaker in the box (all my planer required). The extension from the wall outlet to the converter (which is temporary) is a 3/10. I just ran it for about 2 minutes that way while I was testing each line and I had no overheating and no popped breaker so i THINK that is a good sign as long as my out put numbers are good.

I really appreciate your help don. Just knowing there is someone willing to take the time to help out makes me feel a lot better. forgive me if I butcher some of the electronic lingo. I am a novice and mostly self taught.
 
Keith, It sounds as if the start stop is in properly wired or a wire is missing. Here is how the start stop circuit should be Wired. The Contacts shown and not the main ones but they are smaller contacts off to the side on the starter. You should be able to trouble shoot this part with the Ohm meter. The contact close when the coil is energized so when you take you finger off of the start button it stays on.
 

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Don Baer said:
Keith, It sounds as if the start stop is in properly wired or a wire is missing. Here is how the start stop circuit should be Wired. The Contacts shown and not the main ones but they are smaller contacts off to the side on the starter. You should be able to trouble shoot this part with the Ohm meter. The contact close when the coil is energized so when you take you finger off of the start button it stays on.
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Thanks. So I should take the cover off the start/stop switch and trace the wires back to the mag starter?

what do you think of these values
t1 to t2 = 252v
t1 to t3 = 217v
t2 to t3 = 262v

I fixed the ground
t1 to ground 125v
t2 to ground 125v
3 to ground 210v

My free harbor freight meter may be a little doggy
 
keith Boutselis said:
Thanks. So I should take the cover off the start/stop switch and trace the wires back to the mag starter?
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Yes ?

The high voltage is probably due to the fact there is no load, I would expect them to even out when you have the saw under load.
What does the voltage read coming from the panel. Also make sure you have a good ground coming all the way from your panel.
 
Don Baer said:
Yes ?

The high voltage is probably due to the fact there is no load, I would expect them to even out when you have the saw under load.
What does the voltage read coming from the panel. Also make sure you have a good ground coming all the way from your panel.
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From the panel I am getting 25o across both legs and 125 across either leg and the ground. The ground from the panel is solid. the converter is grounded all over the place. some are redundant. the one on the converters power out was loose or dirty and thats why it wasn't working. I got the power outlet to work but I am getting a new one any way. it is slightly different than the mate on the ras so i would have to force it. I am going to work on the starter wiring later tonight.

I think this converter was home made. it has a westinghouse 10hp and a dayton 3/4hp starter so it seems like they used quality materials but some aspects do not seem like they would have come from the factory the way they are set up.

but my motto is what works, works and for 200 bucks I have no complaints so far.
 
Charlie Plesums said:
May be time to send that big blade out. Most sharpening services can replace broken or missing teeth, then as they sharpen the blade, the faces are aligned perfectly.
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I would love to. as soon as i find a 1+5/8" box wrench and a gigantic allen wrench to hold the shaft. :eek: That was something I never thought of. I found a beautiful 120 tooth 16" blade for $60 but the shaft hole is 1+1/8" and the shaft on the saw is 1 inch. The 20" blade is covered in pitch. I'm gonna clean it and see how dull it is. it has a lot of teeth and might work fine with 2 or 3 missing teeth. I didn't get to work on the mag switch on my converter yet but I may plug the saw in first just so I can see it run and cut a piece of wood. I'm just dying to cut something with it.
 
Patience Grasshopper Patience. Don't be in a hurry take your time, hurry is when we make mistakes and stuff happens.
The first thing you will need to do when you get the saw running is to jog the motor to check for proper rotation. It the blade is spinning backwards the results could be rather catastroghic if you try to cut with it. you have a 50-50 chance of having it run backwards with three phase power and my experience is more then likely it will be wrong. If it is switch any two of the motor wires on the motor starter and it will reverse the rotation.
 
Don Baer said:
Patience Grasshopper Patience. Don't be in a hurry take your time, hurry is when we make mistakes and stuff happens.
The first thing you will need to do when you get the saw running is to jog the motor to check for proper rotation. It the blade is spinning backwards the results could be rather catastroghic if you try to cut with it. you have a 50-50 chance of having it run backwards with three phase power and my experience is more then likely it will be wrong. If it is switch any two of the motor wires on the motor starter and it will reverse the rotation.
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I was wondering about that. I am going a little slow compared to my usual pace and trying to think things out.

and to make certain it is correct, the blade teeth should be spinning so they push the cut towards the fence.
 
keith Boutselis said:
I was wondering about that. I am going a little slow compared to my usual pace and trying to think things out.

and to make certain it is correct, the blade teeth should be spinning so they push the cut towards the fence.
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Ya know I am not sure, I don't own a RAS and it's been years since I cut with one I hope someone who does own one will pipe in on this. OK guys which way should the blade rotate ?
 
IT doesn't matter now. the saw has a bad motor. it would not power up and only made a noise that could most easily be described as bad. the shaft spins freely when you turn the blade but after trying to start the saw I noticed the blade wobble. at first I thought the blade was warped so I took the guard off and discovered the nut was loose. it had only been finger tight before I guess. after taking the blade off i spun the shaft as fast as I could and can hear some noise and without the blades centripetal force the shaft does not spin nice and easy like I first thought.

so now I have a good phase converter and a lot of scrap metal. very sad situation. I had such hopes for this giant.
 
Don Baer said:
Keith take the motor off and take it to a motor repair shop have them look at it. look in the yellow pages under electric motor rewinding.
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I did think of that because I believe the problem is with the bearings but I would imagine having the bearings on a large electric motor replaced would be $200 plus. I have to think about putting more money into it. I may have to sell whatever parts I can and scrap the rest.

At this point I don't know. I would hate for a beautiful machine like this to be melted down.
 
With regard to blade rotation, it is clockwise as you look at the nut on the arbor, assuming the arbor nut is on the left side of the motor. I'd look into getting the motor fixed, and depending on where you are, I have a saw sharpener for you. He does industrial blades, so he might be able to handle a 20" blade. Don't quit on your dream just yet. So far we have all learned a bunch.
 
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