Darren's CNC - Rebuild

Well, unfortunately I think the learning curves of a home cnc are steep. I'm sure some of the more commercial versions, such as carvewrite and shopbot have refined their software to be more novice friendly, but it's not been my experience that one simply can draw and print with these, at least doing anything more than engraving. I've spent a week playing with the Vcarve software off and on, learning how to import and do things, but feel like I'm barely scratching the surface. That doesn't take into account all the in's/out's of running the machine, knowing what speeds to run at for the given material, setting up the material, and setting up the machine for the job.

I am finding that having the VCarve software, that pre-packaged patterns are available, either free or for purchase, which looks to be a benefit for those that don't want to spend a ton of time doing CAM design.

Shopbot actually has several that load into the Vcarve software: http://www.shopbottools.com/msupport/projects.htm

Here's one that has designs for sale: http://cncminiprojects.com/project-shop/

Yeah - there are several parts to the process

1) DESIGN
This is not yet even the CAD part - it is the creativity - what are the possibilities

2) CAD
This can be broken into 2 stages --- A) 2D, and B) 3D
The 3D can be further broken into 2 groups a) Full 3D, and b) Reliefs (almost 100% of the router stuff we see is reflief)

3) CAM
This can get into some REALLY complex stuff - but we are basically into the same as in the CAD.
There is 2D work and 3D work (reliefs for about 100% of the part.)
The real 3D stuff gets of into 4-5 axis stuff. The hobby level CNC routers are not ready for that world yet.

4) MACHINE
We are all basically looking at a vertical spindle 3 axis machine.
The rotary axis on 98% of the hobby machines are not really a 4-th axis.
They really are just axis swapping and "wrapping" one of the machine axis's around a cylinder - that is not really 4-th axis as the machine is still processing 3 axis of motion

5) TOOLING
There really is a lot to learn about tooling
Spiral direction
Gullet clearance
How many flutes to use - what is the material?
What is the correct tool material

6) PROCESS
Speeds and Feeds
Chipload
accelleration
Ramping
Nesting

7) MATERIALS
HDU
Softwood
Hardwood
Plastics - hard and soft
Aluminum
Brass
Composites





It is a BIG pie pie. You cannot eat it all at one time. It does NOT come naturally. It is NOT just common sense. It is a learned skill

Plan on eating it ONE little bite at a time and chew 40 chews on each bite.


On the Vectric Desktop - you very quickly come to realize that what you just bought is NOT a toy. It is a FULL BLOWN hot rod design and programming tool. It is NOT just some low end bang it together quickie CAM system. It IS a powerhouse of programming software.

I have been a Vectric user since 2007 and have had PhotoVcarve, Cut3D, V-Carve Pro and Aspire. I've done a lot with all of it - but am still a novice.

The free models in Desktop allow you some extremely complex designs. This will plunge you DEEP DEEP into the #1 category I mentioned above - Design. How can you take some of those models and compile them into a creative design

Sign.jpg

This sign - not the post - is WELL within the possibilities of V-Carve Pro, and Desktop.
The post is sculpted concrete. That is another skill.
The painting is yet another skill
The models were Vectorart3D models and I think some are in the Desktop collection

The owner of this sign has won awards with it and they use Vectric to do the CAM work on it.

Read my sig line -

Your only limitations that you have with what you have are all in your head - literally

Luch is over and I have overstayed my liberties - gotta go
 
Yup, Leo is right, lots of pies to eat if you really get into this. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was making a mountain out of a mole hill, I do think there is a simpler side and if all one wants to do is simple engraving (following drawn lines) and cutting out profiles, one can learn those processes and be productive very quickly.

As Brent mentioned,regarding my post for cutting holes in my controller board, and that they could have been done much quicker with a forstner and drill bits. Yes, it may have been overkill; however, it was a chance to practice using my machine and the software.

A huge part of using the machine is getting gcode files refined and being able to rely on them to accurately reproduce the product one or more times, hopefully more, but sometimes you just need to practice. ;) As one gets more experience, the process of creating the files and quickly getting a product in hand should get shorter and shorter, and hopefully become somewhat automated where one can turn out product while doing other things.
 
OH YEAH - there is a simple side to it.

I am on a lot of forums and spend HUGE time in the CNC world, both industrial and hobby level.

My life is CNC - and I love it.

I watch countless numbers of people that 1) think CNC is like - show the machine a picture of a house and viola! - and 2) they buy a machine and immediately want to make a sign like that one I posted. I see huge numbers of people just starting out that have no idea what to do, but they want to be an expert right away. They dog the software and can't understand why it's not all automatic, not realizing that it IS a learned skill.

I outlined the steps above because not many people "really" understand the full process.

It was intended to show the process, and the parts of the process. I like to break things down into pieces. Looking at the entire process is just too overwhelming. Take the pieces and learn it one bite at a time - realizing that all the pieces do get intertwined.

LOTS and LOTS of new questions are. What speeds and feeds do I use? How do I cut aluminum? Can I cut Brass? How do I cut Plastic?

Well - all those questions involve some of the above mentioned pieces - but if you are only looking at the whole pie - you cannot see the pieces.

It's not all that different from woodworking. How do I go about building a Chest of Drawers with no metal fasteners. That is a big pie - but break it down into all the pieces. Dovetails - joints - woods - finishes, carcase construction - drawer construction.

I will ALWAYS steer a new person into starting simple before complex.

Grab a piece of wood - slap it on the machine - V-Groove your name.

Those projects get old fast.

Cut a circle - cut a square.

Build on the foundation.

I can probably make that sign I posted including the painting, and I know how to make the post also - but I am not in the beginning stages and I have been under some very talented tutelage from around this country. That would be a challenge to me, but a fun challenge. It's not much different than my Mulligan sign I did about a year ago.

All I am saying is that the possibilities are there. And to say - study it in pieces - it's easier that way.

I don't want to complicate any of this, or overwhelm anyone.
I just have a large amount of energy and excitement for this stuff.
I will try to slow down.
 
I spend a lot of time on Vectric - yes.

We get some nice exposure at World of Wood Forum too.
http://www.worldofwoodforum.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?32-CNC-Woodworking

3Dsign Forum is a bit of CNC - but focused more on sign making
http://www.3dsignforum.com/

From time to time I pop into cammaster forums and sharp forum and shopbot forum and artcam forum - but just as a lurker

I hang out at routerforum a little bit from time to time
http://www.routerforums.com/cnc-routing/

I spent WAY too much time on youtube

I spent a little time on CNCzone
http://www.cnczone.com/

I work in a CNC industry - metal cutting - as an engineer - so I am in it all day every day.
I've been involved in CNC every day for over 30 years.
I've had CNC in my home shop for 8 years
I've been using cutters of all sorts for almost 40 years
I have worked as an engineer in Johnson & Johnson - Winchester - and 6 other companies.
I currently work in Metrology to tolerances in the 10 millionths range.

I have been to one sign camp in Indiana - developed some friends from that - still in contact with some of them

I plan to attend the Vectric Convention some day , and Jim McGrew dose a Vectric Camp once per year that I will be attending

I like to research and read commentaries - so - I am all over the internet - I DIG DEEP
I research everything.

I follow Dan Sawatsky and what he is doing --- http://www.enrouteadventures.blogspot.com/ AND http://www.imaginationcorporation.com/journal/

I check out what Doug Haffner is doing from time to time
http://www.haffnersigns.blogspot.com/

I watch what Melissa is working on
http://www.nicecarvings.com/
She is a truly TALENTED artist.


I follow what Jamie and Jody are working on
http://fromaspiretobeyond.blogspot.com/

All in all - all sources and a bunch more I didn't list help me with the list I posted a few posts ago.
Each of these places ovver up a differend perspective on Design - CAD - CAM - finishing - creative approaches - stuff to think about.

I also take millions of pictures every where I go.
I drive Diane crazy because I will see something - get off the highway and go find it.
Then I take pictures from every angle.
I will touch it, tap it, scratch it.

Dan Sawatsky said there is no better compliment than to have a stranger stop and take a picture of your work.

As an engineer - I am always trying and testing. I will often professionally, develop my own methods and processes.

I like Art - and painting - so I talk to artists, and painters. Sign folk are into art and they have LOTS of good advise.

I will email a sign company owner to ask how they did something I saw on their web sight. Dan will always answer.

But - my number one place is the Vectric forum - plus I LOVE to share what I know.

Beginners belong everywhere.

Go to any place - errrr, maybe not cnczone - and there will be people eager and happy to help a beginner. 3D sign forum is a bunch of REALLY great people - like this place. World of Wood is people like - uhhhh me and Jason - I "think" we are pretty nice people.
 
Thanks Leo, also, thanks for mentioning the clip art for VCarve. I got an email today with the download portal link and came across all the clip art downloads. I've been playing with creating a few pieces and creating cut paths for them. Even though the software was expensive, I'm glad I dropped the dime for it and will most likely be upgrading to the pro version.
 
Thanks Leo, also, thanks for mentioning the clip art for VCarve. I got an email today with the download portal link and came across all the clip art downloads. I've been playing with creating a few pieces and creating cut paths for them. Even though the software was expensive, I'm glad I dropped the dime for it and will most likely be upgrading to the pro version.

Darren,

When I brought my machine home - kinda in a basket, in 2007 I was not sure where I was going with it.

It was not even operational. I did a LOT of work to it and got it running.

I was afraid to spend any money on it. Plus I am pretty cheap - and didn't really WANT to spend money on it.

I tried a pile of free CAM things but could not get what I wanted.

In 2007 I bought PhotoVcarve and V-Carve Pro. A couple of months later I bought cut3D with a bonus from work. All together about $900. Trust me - THAT is a LOT of money to me. I am NOT a high income earner.

Ask me if I would do it again?

I'll save you the trouble ---- YES YES

I waited to get the Aspire and I upgraded - that was $1500 - for the upgrade. I should have done it sooner. I upgrade when they have the upgrades - I will continue and I am GLAD I have done what I have done. YES I DO - make money with it. I don't think everyone should. I don't think many people have my level of enthusiasm for this stuff. Sure the newby novelty add to enthusiasm - but I don't consider myself to be new to this and the novelty has gone away many many years ago.

This is wonderful stuff.

I just can't get enough of it.

I am SOOOO glad you jumped into Desktop - THAT is a super awesome package.

NOT - to drag you away from here - NO - NO I don't want to do that. BUT - you should explore the Vectric User Forum. That is a GREAT forum place. You will get a HUGE leg up on what to do with Desktop. FAR more than I can offer.
 
Been updating an old duo-core computer to replace the pentium 4 I've had running the cnc. Spent a week trying to get windows updates to run on windows vista 32 and Windows 7, both were failing to do so. I finally came across a post about updating the driver for the hard drive controller, so did so and bam!, it all started working. :doh: Apparently the old driver didn't support drives over 500GB and the new drive (which it was running on) was a 1 TB drive, not sure why windows update had such an issue with it.

Next I had to buy a PCIe parallel card to install in it as there was no parallel adapter. After much fiddling, I finally figured out that the LPT1 address wasn't x378, but rather DC00, so wasn't quite matching to legacy hardware. Found that address under the device hardware window and properties for the card itself. It had some other options for using interupts (like a legacy card would), so I enabled them as well.

Finally I stopped and picked up a new (to me) LCD screen today from the local office salvage store. Just a 17" square one, works well.
2015-04-28 18.46.12.jpg

Best part of all, the price! Even came with a 90 day warranty...
2015-04-28 18.46.18.jpg

Still watching videos for VCarve, still learning all the things it can do, it's got a lot to it.
 
Impressive your technical skills and patience. Way to go on the display.
Suprising that win7 update had an issue with the drive controller and did not do that update on its own. Guess the drive controller was perhaps obsolete and removed from windows update. Dunno just speculating.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Impressive your technical skills and patience. Way to go on the display.
Suprising that win7 update had an issue with the drive controller and did not do that update on its own. Guess the drive controller was perhaps obsolete and removed from windows update. Dunno just speculating.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

Well, and this would drive you nuts, but I couldn't do a fresh install on the new drive as HP marks their drives as OEM and the original install discs only work with that drive or an authorized replacement. Luckily the old drive was somewhat still running, just overheating and freezing after a couple of days, but running. I was able to wipe it, re install to it, then clone it to the new hard drive to use. I was just about || that close to throwing the whole thing out. :crash::pullhair:
 
Failed again, my own fault of course. I've been trying to perfect my gcode for the pistol grips I plan to make. Last time I found that some of the tolerances were just a bit thin. I realized that some of the flex I have on my longer rails may be causing that, so I moved the work location towards the end of the table where there wasn't any flex to cause the issue. That seems to have helped.

So back to the latest failure. I have to match the rear recess on each grip to the front, so the work has to be flipped over. Well I have the drawings sized to work with a piece that is 3.5" W x 4" L. As long as the work is exactly that size and I don't drive the machine too hard to lose steps, the recess and front will be aligned when I flip the work over. Well, I've had some Bocote I've been trying to get a set of grips out of, but the widest pieces I have are about 3" wide, so I adjusted my zero for x and y to accommodate this and got started. However, I didn't think to double check one of the two pieces, which turned out to be about 3/32" narrower than the other one. When I flipped the piece after the final cut out, the recess was about 3/32" off. :doh: I think I can salvage the other grip and I also have one other that was for a matched set that I might be able to do the same with it to get a complete set, so not all is lost.

2015-04-29 22.08.27.jpg2015-04-29 22.08.37.jpg

Anyway, I thinking about moving the datum point from the bottom left to the center of the work so I can check alignment with a pointer.
 
Good experiment! sorry about the oops.

In doing 2-sided machining, I've found it best to let the machine determine your locating registers by having it drill a pair (or more) of locating holes in the first operation then flip onto a fixture with pins (basically using the same code to drill the holes in the fixture so they're always in the same place) - that way there is no "same size" factor. It's much more accurate than trying to remember to measure everything precisely and get it set in the same place and all that.
 
Is there a way to deal with the rail flex by adding additional bracing?

Yes, but not the way I have them setup. I do have some 1" supported rails that will do the job, I just have to either get some bearing blocks or make some for the bearings I have. They are also about 1.5 ' longer than my current bed, so I'd probably just rebuild the bed while I'm at it. I think I can work around it still, I was taking pretty aggressive final cuts. I should be able to slow the final pass to prevent the bit from pushing away from the work as it cuts.
 
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