Whole House Surge Protection

Darren Wright

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Springfield, Missouri
Anyone had a surge protector installed on their main panel? Just looking for info on what is recommended.

We pay an extra $5 per month for one on our meter, which is suppose to have extra insurance, but with pool equipment, sub-panel running to my shop, and other outdoor electrical I'm thinking I should probably try to mitigate it at more central place. Maybe even on the sub-panel too.

As you can guess, we've got a good thunderstorm passing through, so got me to thinking.
 
I can only give you my personal experience.

Since I am an antique I have seen changes in electrical panels. The first two houses, that I can remember, had an entry panel consisting of two 15 amp fuses (Yep, that was it.), In 1941 my folks built a house and had to make a decision between fuses or circuit breakers. The electrician, a good friend, talked them into using breakers and a bit of overkill; there were 4 of them. The four breakers covered the house and the shop (TS, BS, DP, Forge, Wood Lathe, Metal Lathe). I don't know what was in the apartment house while going to college. We purchased a very well built tract house it had a 100 amp Main, Later, we built a house, it had a 200 amp Main, The last 2 houses have had 100 amp Mains.

All of that leads up to the fact that none of these had any surge protection other than the breakers. With all of the stuff I have how, I should have a larger main. My shop sub-panel pulls off of dual 30 amp breakers in the Main. Under all of these, except one, I am sure the Main has been too small, but that's the way it is when you purchase spec. houses in So. Calif. However, I have never had a problem, I have not blown fuses nor tripped breakers (except the time I drilled into a piece of Romex).

I have more equipment and the equipment has larger motors than I have had in the past. I have many more breakers than in the past. Several pieces of equipment have their own dedicated lines (Air compressor, Dust collector, Electric heaters in the shop, etc.). I don't stress any one circuit may be the reason I don't have problems.

I don't know if I helped you. At least you have one darned fools lay-out.

Enjoy,

JimB
 
Jim, the surge protector has little to do with the ampere rating of the panel or the stresses you're putting on it. Its primary purpose is to mitigate electrical surges coming into the house, either from the electric utility, or things like lightning. Back in the olden days (when you were raising kids) it was not a real big issue, but many of today's electronic appliances and other computer-controlled devices can be easily damaged by electrical surges.
 
We had one installed about a year ago. It goes into the panel just like a dual pole circuit breaker, and the electronic (Dunno what's in it!) portion is in a small box that's just outside the wall.

Ours is a Square D (brand) model, installed in a 200 amp panel, and cost just under $200.00. My nephew, a licensed electrician, installed it, and he likely got a bit of a price break on it as well. It took less than twenty minutes to install.

Note that, even with it installed, the manufacturer still recommends that 'point of use' surge protectors continue to be used.
 
I bought one for about $60 and installed it myself. As someone else said, it's just a small box that mounts to a knockout on the side of the service panel. It just connects like a two-pole breaker. They're simple to install and with all of the electronic stuff we have these days, WELL worth it!
 
Thanks guys, my concerns are mostly for all the electronic equipment. We have several large trees around the house and shop, so I've got a higher than many chance of getting a surge some day. A friends tree got hit last year. The surge went through the landscaping lights, smoked the sprinkler system control, burnt one entire circuit (wire plugs and all) on the back side of his living room on it's way to the main, fried the main breaker. He lost a lot of equipment with the initial surge, but as he powered things off and back on they went out. He ended up replaced just about anything that had been plugged in at the time of the surge.

I do keep my main server and the living room tv on power conditioner/surge protectors, but none of the appliances have any protection, so the panel one would just be another level to hopefully spare them.

My understanding is that they put the breaker connected to the surge protection box as close to the main as possible. This would catch a surge coming in and hopefully re-direct it to the protection device and spare the circuits below it. I would say in my friends case that any outdoor circuits would have needed to be above the surge breaker and any household circuits with electronics below it?
 
Breakers? What are them there thingamajigs ya'll are speaking of????? I have four screw in fuses along the bottom row, two push in black plastic things that hold two cartidges vertically. Yep, still running on 60 amp service.
 
Darren having had quiet a bit of experience with lightning protection and the development of these kinds of units, i dont think you should be grouping a electrical surge from the electric company as the same for a impulse resulting from induced current as a result of lightning.

There are three basic discrete devices that are used in these "boxes" and since i came to these parts i have found very few that have appropriate specs. Mostly because of marketing smoke and mirrors.

When one looks at induced voltage spike from a lightning bolt one has to take into account how fast the rising edge of the spike is going up. The typical components they put in a surge protector are gas arrestors, wirewound resistors and PTC (positive temp coefficient resistors) but the really good stuff uses the devices the US developed to handle electromagnetic pulses these devices are called Transzorbs and are basically like a high wattage zener diode except they very fast reacting and can handle clamping a pulse of short duration. (other good thing is they tend to fail short so you know its happened)

Most of the so called surge stuff if its half decent has a gas arrestor in it but they slow in reaction time compared to lightning pulses. They will strike and clamp but only after the initial surge has got through. So it depends whats behind it.

The other key thing in all of this is providing a path to divert the surge to. So a good ground and i mean low resistance ground leg is essential.

You might consider building your own and placing them local to your electronics or looking for ones where they have encapsulated the circuitry into the plug that you place into a receptacle. Then you plug your device into the back of that.

The surge in the mains voltage from the electric company is gonna be best handled by a PTC which is slower to react and those surges are not as fast as lightning.

But the other downside is apart from Gas arrestors things like PTCs have limited hit rates. Many people think these devices can just sit there and take a beating time after time but that aint true at all.

This topic gets to be somewhat like Dust Collection. Pricey to do it properly and maintain the protection.

I would research the device you thinking of installing and get to see if you can ascertain more detail on the specs and evaluate it from there again.
 
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What you say makes perfect sense Rob. I've realized that no-one can predict what mother nature is going to throw at us, so I'm not about to try and beat her.

The more I think about what you say, the more I think that it may be a battle that can be as hard and expensive as I want to make it. I had the electric company put the meter type whole house protector on and had peace of mind at least until my friend's house got hit from another point of entry.

For me, I've got a sub-panel fed from buried lines to the shop, a pool pump, landscape lighting, two fountains, a fish pond pump, and about 4 outdoor circuits feeding the pond, light transformers, and fountains. I also have phone and cable lines feeding into the house. That's a lot of places that I'd have to try to stop a surge from.

So I think you're right in hitting this at the most likely source, second would most likely be the sub-panel/wiring from the shop and the panel mounted protector at the main would make the most sense. All in all this is what I pay insurance for anyway, but try to do my due diligence.
 
Yeah i was thinking of my illuminati insurance broker wife. :) and what she would tell me if i had to suffer some damage of the kind you mention. Lets just say i would be wasting my time expecting to get anything from her. :) Her first point of defense of the organization (insurance mafia) would be ahhhh your deductible, her second would be did you know there was a storm coming if so why did you not unplug the stuff. She is a tough nut when you trying to get money from them. (LOL) its a reason we dont discuss the subject of insurance in our house. Makes a political firestorm seem like childs play. :)

You absolutely correct thats what you have and are paying insurance for. :thumb:
 
The utility company provides protection at the meter base and individual protection for sensitive devices--TV, computer etc. Cost is $5 a month. Before these were installed we had lost a submersible pump, TVs, stereo and computer (3X). Since that install we have had no issues. We did lose 1 of the individual protectors, but the TV was fine. Maybe it's dumb luck. I'm not sure.
 
We've got the meter surge protector Ron, but not sure it will do much good if it hits the tree by the shop and surges in via the lines feeding the sub panel out there.

Rob, you know my wife is in the same industry and knows what not to say or to say what they don't want to hear. ;)
 
If those are above ground lines I share your concern. If the lines are buried I would be less concerned. But there is so much energy in a lightning strike that I would worry about it too. My meter is on the back wall of the shop, about 1 foot from the 100 amp shop panel. The feed to the house is buried and 80 feet long. The meter is mounted on a duel parallel base so that each panel is considered a main panel. I hope I don't have the occasion to see the result of a direct hit on the trees that shade the house and shop--they are close to the buried entrance too.
 
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