Cracked No 7 Stanley Hand Plane........ Repair?

Stuart Ablett

Member
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Tokyo Japan
In getting ready for Garrett Hack's class this coming Sunday I was cleaning and fettling my hand planes, I decided to shine up the sides of my No 7 Stanley Jointer plane and I found this.....

oRlAL.jpg


Firs thing I want to say here is that there is no possibility that this reflects badly in ANY WAY on Steve who so VERY kindly looked for, purchased and then sent me this plane, just to be crystal clear. :thumb: I mean I did not find this crack until much time had passed, and I did look for a crack, as I'm sure Steve did, it was not easy to find, and if I'd not gone to town on sprucing up the plane I'd not have found it today.

The plane works fine, as is, but as you can imagine, I'm going to fix it, OK how?

I'm thinking some kind of silver solder or such would be the best way, what say you all?

Cheers!
 
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Silver brazing will probably be your best bet, but it'll have to be done with care to keep from warping the sole.

Cleaning and widening the crack will be necessary, too - make the crack into a "V" groove on both the inside and outside. A Dremel tool or die grinder would probably be the best tool for that.

If it were here, I'd just go find another plane, but since #7 Stanleys aren't all that common in Tokyo, attempting your repair will be practical.

Good Luck!
 
Silver brazing will probably be your best bet, but it'll have to be done with care to keep from warping the sole.

Cleaning and widening the crack will be necessary, too - make the crack into a "V" groove on both the inside and outside. A Dremel tool or die grinder would probably be the best tool for that.

If it were here, I'd just go find another plane, but since #7 Stanleys aren't all that common in Tokyo, attempting your repair will be practical.

Good Luck!

Yeah Jim, you and I are basically on the same page I think :thumb:

That being said, in looking around the net I found >> this page << if you look at the #6 post by Diesel_Pusher he makes a good point about silver brazing, like how the carbide tips of our sawblades are attached, makes me wonder about that...?

I have an old shoddy block plane that I'll practice on.

Cheers!
 
Stu, the silver brazing will be plenty strong enough, and will require less heat than any other (effective) method. Cleaning and prep must be meticulous for it to work, though.

Oh, one other - minor - thing: you're gonna lose any japanning on that side, so plan on having to re-do that, too.
 
Stu, the silver brazing will be plenty strong enough, and will require less heat than any other (effective) method. Cleaning and prep must be meticulous for it to work, though.

Oh, one other - minor - thing: you're gonna lose any japanning on that side, so plan on having to re-do that, too.
Yep, that's the plan, I'll redo the whole plane, spruce it up nicely, even give it an electrolysis dip before anything else, that will clean the heck out of it.

I think that my buddy Sugita san has a #7 that he is bringing along, so I'll leave my cracked one at home.

Any links to redoing the Japanning? I usually just paint them, but maybe I should try the Japanning....?

Cheers!
 
Japanning:
http://home.comcast.net/~rexmill/planes101/japanning/japanning.htm - linked via http://www.rexmill.com/ (Hand Planes 101)
http://shootingboard.net/shop/hand-tools/japanning/

Silver Soldering:

Might well be your best best alright. It will flow pretty well (compared to brazing with kinda doesn't much), so I'd be cautious opening up the crack to much or it might be a pain to fill.
To avoid warping I might consider heating it up slow in an oven to say 450-500F before doing it. Then make sure to heat up the surrounding area even more sorta generally.

Good luck on this one :D
 
Ryan's suggestion to pre-heat is a very good one. Do that if you can.

As for re-japanning - I use paint. Terry Hatfield (remember him?) put me on to a commercial-grade paint called "MRO," from Seymour paints, several years ago and I've been using it ever since. It's sort of a 'semi-gloss' enamel that covers beautifully, doesn't chip easily, and has nearly the same 'soft gloss' appearance as japanning. I've used it on at least a dozen of my planes since then, with consistently good results.
 
As for re-japanning - I use paint. Terry Hatfield (remember him?) put me on to a commercial-grade paint called "MRO," from Seymour paints, several years ago and I've been using it ever since. It's sort of a 'semi-gloss' enamel that covers beautifully, doesn't chip easily, and has nearly the same 'soft gloss' appearance as japanning. I've used it on at least a dozen of my planes since then, with consistently good results.

I'd like to try actual japaning sometime, but yeah it looks exceedingly tedious so haven't actually ever gotten around to trying it. A lot of people seem to stick with various high quality enamels. Do make sure to carefully mask the parts you don't want covered.
 
Stu, couple of comments. First if you can silver braze, more power to you. I myself wouldn't try, but I do not have the metal skills you do. Second, one thing to consider is whether or not the plane needs to be fixed. A small hairline crack may not worsen, and the plane may be fine as is. I have a lovely 5 1/4 that I really like. Only after I cleaned it up did I find a small hairline in one cheek. It runs horizontally. I use the plane regularly and it's never been a problem. Last, if you do opt to braze it, I would suggest before heating to first clamp the sole of the plane to a rigid steel plate, to minimize risk of warping - I have no direct experience, but have read this. Jim D's advice about paint sounds excellent. There's also a specific spray paint sold at auto parts stores, whose name I forget, but have at home, if you want it. Last, pardon my ignorance, and dumb humor, but do they have japanning in Japan?
 
I'm with Ken. The crack isn't affecting the use of the plane and the fix might do some damage. I understand your desire to have it "fixed" but I'd leave it until there's a real problem.

That crack may have been in that plane since manufacture.

Mike
 
Stu, couple of comments. First if you can silver braze, more power to you. I myself wouldn't try, but I do not have the metal skills you do. Second, one thing to consider is whether or not the plane needs to be fixed. A small hairline crack may not worsen, and the plane may be fine as is. I have a lovely 5 1/4 that I really like. Only after I cleaned it up did I find a small hairline in one cheek. It runs horizontally. I use the plane regularly and it's never been a problem. Last, if you do opt to braze it, I would suggest before heating to first clamp the sole of the plane to a rigid steel plate, to minimize risk of warping - I have no direct experience, but have read this. Jim D's advice about paint sounds excellent. There's also a specific spray paint sold at auto parts stores, whose name I forget, but have at home, if you want it. Last, pardon my ignorance, and dumb humor, but do they have japanning in Japan?

Ken, I fear that the crack will get worse with time and use, and yes, I do plan to use the plane, so I will look into repairing it.
No idea about the Japanning here in Japan:D

I'm with Ken. The crack isn't affecting the use of the plane and the fix might do some damage. I understand your desire to have it "fixed" but I'd leave it until there's a real problem.

That crack may have been in that plane since manufacture.

Mike
Mike you may be correct, but I'd still like to look into fixing it.

I you do decide to repair you should drill a very small hole at the end of the crack to keep it from propagating any more. Old machinist trick.
Yes, I too learned this trick a long time ago!

Stu, come to think of it, Garrett Hack is supposed to be a plane expert - why not bring it to the class as is and seek his advice?
No doubt about it Ken, he knows planes......
070787_lg_1.jpg:thumb:

This is a good idea even if you decide to not do any further repairs!!

My thoughts exactly Dennis, even if I do not silver solder it, a hole in the right place would be a good way to stop the crack from becoming worse.
 
A couple more pics......

NMoO4.jpg

That is the bottom as it is right now, so it is not exactly perfect, but it works just fine, the cracked cheek is the side my thumb is on in the picture.

BOzUE.jpg

Here is another picture of the crack, this is before I did some more glass plate and sandpaper work, I'd only done some scrubby pad clean up.
As it turns out I thought I was pointing to the end of the crack in this picture, but I was incorrect, I think.

5WSW2.jpg

I put a couple of very strong rare earth magnets on the backside of the cheek, and then sprinkled some of the dust created by rubbing the plane on the sandpaper on glass, a poor man's Magnaflux. It does highlight the crack nicely.

When I meet with Garrett on Sunday I'll ask his advice, I think that at the very least I'll drill a stop hole, from there I'm not sure what I'll do.

Cheers!
 
Okay - different take...

In the first picture (first post) I'd assumed the crack was located where they're most common - at the front, running downward towards the mouth. Now that I see it's toward the back, adjacent the tote, it's not nearly so serious. It's not likely to run across the sole and up the other side. For this one, I might just stop-drill it with a #50 ~ #60 drill and let it go at that.

A crack at the front, running down into the mouth would have been much more serious - leading probably to the whole front of the body breaking off, leaving you with a "#7 bullnose." :(
 
Sounds good Stu. I'm looking forward to hearing his opinion.

Me too Ken!:)

Okay - different take...

In the first picture (first post) I'd assumed the crack was located where they're most common - at the front, running downward towards the mouth. Now that I see it's toward the back, adjacent the tote, it's not nearly so serious. It's not likely to run across the sole and up the other side. For this one, I might just stop-drill it with a #50 ~ #60 drill and let it go at that.

A crack at the front, running down into the mouth would have been much more serious - leading probably to the whole front of the body breaking off, leaving you with a "#7 bullnose." :(

Yeah we are on the same page Jim, stop drill may be enough, but I'll inquire with Garrett.

Cheers!
 
OK, an update.

I asked Garrett about the cracked plane, he first said don't worry about it, if the plane works fine, but I explained I was worried that the crack would get worse, he had a look at it and flexed it against the bench and agreed that if I could silver solder it, it would be good. He said he has several planes that have been fixed, not by him, that work just fine.

IEUgi.jpg

I got out my 1/4" thick steel plate I use for welding on, and my torch, this did not work well, the steel plate was acting as a heat sink.

Wo74E.jpg

next I tried some wooden blocks, this was not bad actually, but not great, and not the blocks only singed a little.

v8Tp1.jpg

I then put the plane on my small hot plate stove and cooked it from below and torched it from above, still not enough heat, so I got out my LPG tank and big burner, that added a LOT of heat, and things began to glow, but I was not really able to get the temp up high enough to melt my silver solder.

I did really try, and was partially successful.

I was worried about the plane cooling to quickly, so I bought a 30Kg sack of silicone sand, the dry stuff, and dumped it in a 5 gallon bucket, but the bucket was not deep enough, so I also put in a piece of pipe......

6H0L2.jpg

I put some sand in the bucket and pipe, then dropped the hot plane bed into the pipe and filled it with sand, and the bucket too.

Several hours later the sand was still warm, but not very, so I took out the plane bed.
I put it back together and started lapping the sides and bottom on my float glass and sandpaper set up.

44Mn0.jpg

gVgBQ.jpg

I hope you can see the crack, on the right side of the picture you can see the silver solder has partially filled the crack, that is where it got hot enough I guess, the top of the cheek, the area with the least amount of metal.

The silver solder that I was using has a melting point of 780C/1436F, I guess I could not get enough of the plane up to temp. The larger LPG burner I have runs at 2000C but I guess it is more about BTUs to heat the whole plane up. The only other option I have is my forge, but the plane will not even sort of fit in it.

Plan B, I have ordered some different silver solder, two types, one has a melting temp of 650/1202F, I hope I can get the plane body up to that temp, I think I can, if not the second type I ordered has a melting point of only 220C/428F. I'm sure I can melt this one, but it is not as strong, but then again, how strong does it have to be?

So I have three types of so called Silver Solder:

High Temp 780C/1436F Tensile strength 78,180 PSI
Middle Temp 650C/1202F Tensile strength 63,960 PSI
Low Temp 220C/428F Tensile strength 31,910 PS!

These planes are made from gray cast iron, as far as I know, and from looking round on the net, I find that gray cast iron as an ASTM number from 20 to 60, and the range of tensile strength is then from about 22,000 PSI to 62,000 PSI. Now I doubt that these old Stanley planes have the hardest, strongest gray cast iron in them, so if I can get the middle silver solder to flow at 63,960 PSI I think I would just about guarantee the silver solder joint would be stronger than the gray cast iron it is joining. Heck even the low temp silver solder at 31,910 is going to be about the middle of the range of the tensile strength of gray cast iron. Who knows that quality of gray cast iron was used in these old planes....?

After I try one more time to solder it, I'll then spend some time lapping the sole and then refinish it. I'll put it in the electrolysis tank tonight to make sure it is super clean for the second attempt at silver soldering the crack. FYI I did use the special flux and lots of it, for this type of silver solder.

Cheers!
 
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