Dust Collection Recomendations

I am starting to research Dust Collection, as it needs to be my next addition to the shop. I know that ideally a cyclone is the best way to go. Unfortuntaly that is just way out of my price range.(even on the low end $800 and up ) I was reading on Stu's site about how he made his. I am very impressed Unfortunatly I don't have a welder or welding abilities to fabricate one. I also don't have a lot of over head room. The bottom of the floor joists (effectively the ceiling of my shop) are about at 7 feet.

I was looking at the Delta 50-760 and the Steel City 65200, because of the 1 micron filters.

I have the following tools that would be connected to the DC system: table saw, joiner, planer, band saw, compound miter saw, sanding station, random orbit sander, belt sander(as soon as I get the DC addaptor), router table / connection for plunge router.

In place of a true cyclone, has anyone had an sucess in using a seperator (mounts on a garbage can, inline before the DC)? Is this worth having to catch the big stuff before it hits the DC?

Also is it possible to build a down draft table, using the suction from a DC... or would it need its own vaccum/blower?

Any and all suggestions / recommendations are welcome !

Delta 50-760 Specs:
Motor 1.5 HP
Maximum CFM 1200
Motor Specs 3450 RPM, 120/240V, single phase, 60 Hz
Impeller Diameter 11.5"
Filter Bag Area (Total) 20.5 square feet, 1.9 square meters
Standard Bag Filtration 1 Micron Chip Bag Area (Total) 2.4 cubic feet, 67 liters
Overall Dimensions Length: 35", Width: 19", Height: 83"
Max. Static Pressure (in water) 8
Decibel Rating 88 dB


Steel City 65200 Specs:
Motor: 1.5 HP, 115V/230V, 60 Hz TEFC
Motor Control: Industrial Push Button
Max. CFM: 1,200 CFM
Static Pressure: 11.1 (inches of water)
Bag Filtration: 1 micron
Chip Capacity: 6.3 Cu. Ft.
Impeller: Steel
Blow Wheel Diameter: 11 1/2"
Number of Intakes: 2 - 4
Hose Diameter: 4"
Decibel Reading: 87 dB

Sean, here are a few threads that detail what I did recently for DC in my shop. Like you, I realize the cyclone is the best way to go, but it's not in my stars right now. (Much to Stu's chagrin.) What I ended up with for about $300 is a vast improvement over the Shop Vac I was using previously as my only DC.

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1472

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1628

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1717

The Harbor Freight 2hp DC is on sale again for about $180. The Delta you mentioned has also had good reviews, and it could be fitted with a canister filter.

In my limited experience and research, here are (my) answers to your
questions:

I was looking at the Delta 50-760, because of the 1 micron filter.

I'd recommend finding a filter that goes even smaller than 1 micron. But there are a lot of folks who will argue otherwise.

I have the following tools that would be connected to the DC system: table saw, joiner, planer, band saw, compound miter saw, sanding station, random orbit sander, belt sander(as soon as I get the DC addaptor), router table / connection for plunge router.

My HF DC handles my table saw, bandsaw, jonter table and planer very nicely, or at least MUCH better than my Shop Vac could do. With a Big Gulp scoop, it's also great for sanding on the lathe. It alomost makes sanding fun. I'd think it would do fine on a downdraft table (as long as it's not too big). For the ROS and 3" belt sander though, I still use my Shop Vac. As I understand it, the high pressure/low volume of a shop vac is more effective for these two tools than the low pressure/high volume of a DC system.

In place of a true cyclone, has anyone had an sucess in using a seperator (mounts on a garbage can, inline before the DC)? Is this worth having to catch the big stuff before it hits the DC?

I read enough mixed reviews of this approach that for now, I'm doing without a separator. I don't tend to generate a lot of bulky chips, so I've not really seen a need. Your uses may dictate otherwise. I do use a 5 gallon bucket separator on my Shop Vac, because I tend to use it to pick up the bigger chips and wet curlies from my lathe area. It's easier dumping the chips out of the bucket than the Shop Vac itself, and it helps keep the vac filter clean longer.

Also is it possible to build a down draft table, using the suction from a DC... or would it need its own vaccum/blower?

I have a roughly 24" x 18" box with a pegboard table surface, and with the DC hooked up to the side of the box, it seems to generate a lot of suction. (It'll nearly hold a cutting board in place when using the ROS.) The pegboard could use more holes, but the "table" does seem to pull in quite a bit of air and dust. I'd think a bigger version would work decently. I've never used a blower-equipped downdraft table, so I can't say how it would compare.

As I said, I'm no DC expert, but those are my observations and experiences. I hope this helps.

While I did a lot of reading before going the Clear Vue route quiet a bit of it is now fuzzy, however the size (filter area) of the Delta seems awfully small to me. IIRC 4-600 sq.ft. is the range of filtration I would be comfortable with. You might consider looking for a prefab cyclone (I think Ed at Clear Vue will sell one) that can be had for $2-400, then adding the HF blower and some good filters. The blower (and filters) can be mounted remote from the cyclone and collector can to address your ceiling height.

That said, you will still have to pony up some $$ for hose, ducts, and blast gates. 6" PVC (ASTM 2729) is about $2 per ft. locally and IMHO 4" is just too small to get the kind of air flow you really need.

Good luck.

Vaughn McMillan said:

I have a roughly 24" x 18" box with a pegboard table surface, and with the DC hooked up to the side of the box, it seems to generate a lot of suction. (It'll nearly hold a cutting board in place when using the ROS.)

"The pegboard could use more holes", but the "table" does seem to pull in quite a bit of air and dust. I'd think a bigger version would work decently. I've never used a blower-equipped downdraft table, so I can't say how it would compare.

As I said, I'm no DC expert, but those are my observations and experiences. I hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Vaughn, I remember that Terry Hatfield made a nice downdraft unit to lay on top of a bench and hook up to his DC, and if I remember correctly it was "Him" that reported that he later drilled out the holes in the pegboard to 3/8" and that it increased the airflow and the overall effectiveness of the downdraft table tremenduously.

Same limited conditions here, I too am confined to a basement and that make dust collection even more prevelant as SWMBO certainly is disturbed with additional dusting of the rest of the house. I have a build Down draft that works wonders, and built air cleaner that works it dusty butt off as well and have a DC from Grizzly. Any specific info you want?

I have a bag-type dust collector.

I upgraded to the finer bags for better filtration, but that cut the air flow too much.

I upgraded to a giant aftermarket filter bag for the top, to reduce the constriction and improve the airflow, and now use disposable bags on the bottom. I still breathe a lot of dust when I take out the disposable bag.

I upgraded the plumbing - went to $300 worth of 6 inch sewer and drain pipe leading to the 4 inch flex connected to the machines.

I wish I had gotten the cyclone in the first place. For the cost of all the upgrades, it wouldn't have cost much if any more.

I do have a trash can separator on my jointer/planer. The big advantage is that it leaves the fairly heavy, fairly clean chips separate - people are willing (or even anxious) to take those chips, while the stuff that makes it on to the dust collector bag is really nasty... the trash man gets that. But by removing the high volume clean chips, I normally can get the nasty dust within my city trash pickup limits. The separator does reduce the efficiency of the dust collection in that "run" but by leaving the separator close to the jointer/planer, collection is adequate.

I use a separate vacuum for the sanders, Biscuit jointer, lipping planer, and plunge router, since I want intermittent suction through a 1 1/2 inch hose, not multiple HP suction through a 4 inch hose. I got a small vac for that purpose that I empty by "sucking the vacuum out" with the dust collector. Similarly a shop vacuum would be nearly useless for a downdraft table, but a dust collector should work fine.

When I recently put together my small 2-car woodworking shop, I decided to begin my focus on dust collection. Wm Pentz's website succeeded in convincing me that I did not want the remaining 30 years of my life impacted by respiratory issues, or worse. I selected the Oneida Gorilla 3HP DC and instead of running duct work up to the ceiling and dropping a bunch of pipes to individual machines, I instead ran an 8 inch pipe from the DC down to the floor with three branches: 1] one for the 3 inch blade guard on my combo machinem 2] a 5 inch that runs to the main port on that same machine, and 3] a 6 inch flex hose with a reducer down to 4 inch at the end to serve my other machines (MM20 band saw, Router table with 4-inch ported downdraft box, etc). That saved me some money on duct work, although I did elect to use the pricey Nordfab pipe and I have no regrets doing so.

I can say that dust is not an issue in my shop. I keep an eye on a couple horizontal surfaces to see if I can detect any thin layer of dust accumulating. I have found none to date. As a one man shop, I designed my shop to operate only one dust-producing machine at a time.

The Onedia, together with some Festool tools and their superior dust collection designs, results in dust not being an issue in my new shop. In fact, today for the first time I emptied the plastic bag in my Oneida 30-gallon dust bin. It took all of five minutes to remove the filled bag and install a new one. Not a drop of dust on the floor.

I used my Woodpecker router table and Incra super-duper fence system (I don't recall the model name) with the Wonder Fence, and produced no uncaptured sawdust (hooking the 4" Oneida duct to the router table downdraft box) and my Festool vacuum hose to the Wonder Fence outlet. Great machine!

sean, given your height and budget restrictions the h/f unit that vaughn has would be a major upgrade from a shop-vac...just go into the dust collection game knowing that it`s very likely that you`ll be upgrading the pump/filter system in the future but a well designed piping system can be used with any pump/filter combination, so buy good pipe and blastgates and look at your first pump as a disposable item......tod

Sometimes Penn State has some real good sales on dust collectors. I have had their 2hp canister 1 micron filter unit for about two years and it has worked really good. Here is the one that I have: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/dc2000bcf.html Looks like that they have a very good price on it right now.

Hey Sean,
Any chance you could put the DC outside and run the plumbing back into the house? That gets rid of the height issues and also helps with noise and tidiness.

Only problems are that you will have to make up for the air going outside and you will be pumping warm air out

I have the 2 hp Oneida and I love it.

Jesse Cloud said:

Hey Sean,
Any chance you could put the DC outside and run the plumbing back into the house? That gets rid of the height issues and also helps with noise and tidiness.

Only problems are that you will have to make up for the air going outside and you will be pumping warm air out

I have the 2 hp Oneida and I love it.

Click to expand...

Jesse is right, this would be the best thing you could do, if you had a cyclone, or a DC in a shed outside, with a clean air return, you would move the noise and dust outside, and when it comes time to empty the dust bin, it is also outside, a good thing.

You would want a remote sensor of some kind to make sure you do not over fill it.

Cheers!

Bill Simpson said:

Same limited conditions here, I too am confined to a basement and that make dust collection even more prevelant as SWMBO certainly is disturbed with additional dusting of the rest of the house. I have a build Down draft that works wonders, and built air cleaner that works it dusty butt off as well and have a DC from Grizzly. Any specific info you want?

Click to expand...

Bill,

Could you post some pictures of your down draft unit and air cleaner you built?

thanks!

maybe a cyclone......

In my DC research I came across this cyclone. This guy designed it to connect to a standard DC with either a 4in or a 6in port.

http://www.cycloneseparator.com/

Does anyone have one of these or know if it would be worth adding on to a 1200 CFM DC with a 6in port?

I read that American Woodworker magazine did a review of it in 2005, but I can't seem to find a posting of that review online.

Thanks !

Sean Wright said:

Bill,

Could you post some pictures of your down draft unit and air cleaner you built?

thanks!

Click to expand...

The down draft is a unit I lay on a work area I made it using a 1/4" X1 1/4" cross lapped grid (practicing with the new cross lap jig I made) Tapered bottom to a 4" DC connection. Screen over the opening to prevent good things from going to the DC> DAMHIKT .... I cover the top with rubber matting open weave (Drawer liners, work mat, router mat, sanding mat, it has a bunch of different names) with holes that reduce the suction area and create a better air flow as well as hold the piece being sanded. Works great and has for several years (although pretty much beat up by now)






the air filter exchange box is a simple boxthe size of a used small box fan .. I mounted the fan in the end of a wood box that I made recess to accept a couple of 3M Heppa Filters (one on each side) As the fan blows out (keeping me cool) it draws in the filthy air (I have it mounted to the ceiling next to my DC and wired to the light circuit so that when the lights are on , it is on (except I can turn it off) It does a great job (at one time I thought it was a good idea to also get some cheap filters and tape in front of the more expensive but it was a waste of time as the filters worked the same w or w/o



Were I to do over???? I would taper the bottom to the sanding box not only from sides but from the ends as well/ And for the filter I would have made the box to accept the more common sizes of filters. The 12X 22 is a rare beast and although they had plenty when I made this , they are often out of stock and never on sale. Other than that, no regrets to any of the construction.

Will offer more info if needed or interested, but they are pretty simple in construction, you add in the dimensions you need.

Bill Simpson said:

The down draft is a unit I lay on a work area I made it using a 1/4" X1 1/4" cross lapped grid (practicing with the new cross lap jig I made) Tapered bottom to a 4" DC connection. Screen over the opening to prevent good things from going to the DC> DAMHIKT .... I cover the top with rubber matting open weave (Drawer liners, work mat, router mat, sanding mat, it has a bunch of different names) with holes that reduce the suction area and create a better air flow as well as hold the piece being sanded. Works great and has for several years (although pretty much beat up by now)


the air filter exchange box is a simple boxthe size of a used small box fan .. I mounted the fan in the end of a wood box that I made recess to accept a couple of 3M Heppa Filters (one on each side) As the fan blows out (keeping me cool) it draws in the filthy air (I have it mounted to the ceiling next to my DC and wired to the light circuit so that when the lights are on , it is on (except I can turn it off) It does a great job (at one time I thought it was a good idea to also get some cheap filters and tape in front of the more expensive but it was a waste of time as the filters worked the same w or w/o


Were I to do over???? I would taper the bottom to the sanding box not only from sides but from the ends as well/ And for the filter I would have made the box to accept the more common sizes of filters. The 12X 22 is a rare beast and although they had plenty when I made this , they are often out of stock and never on sale. Other than that, no regrets to any of the construction.

Will offer more info if needed or interested, but they are pretty simple in construction, you add in the dimensions you need.

Click to expand...

Bill,

I like the design of both!

Being that the funding for the DC is still in the works.... I think I might make an air filter along the lines of yours. It doesn't look too complex. Anything to help the air quailty in the shop would be an improvement !

Just a few of questions....
1st - Can you put up a pict of the cross lap jig you made?

2nd - for the air filter, I am guessing that there are filter sized rectangular openings on each side of the box.... ?
There is just one 3M filter in each side.....?
The end of the box is sealed....?
Is this correct?

3rd - for the air filter you can put up a picture or an explanation of how you mounted them in the box? such as used a specific type of bracket....etc.

4th - (and final for now) You said that the cheap additional filters didn't make a difference. How long do you go between replacing the better 3M ones?

Thanks for all the info!

Sean Wright said:

Bill,

I like the design of both!

Being that the funding for the DC is still in the works.... I think I might make an air filter along the lines of yours. It doesn't look too complex. Anything to help the air quailty in the shop would be an improvement !

Just a few of questions....
1st - Can you put up a pict of the cross lap jig you made?Sorry, No pictures and it was just a sacrifice extension for the Miter/crosscut guage, with a notch to match a Dado blade with apeg in it moved over the desired distance between cuts.

2nd - for the air filter, I am guessing that there are filter sized rectangular openings on each side of the box.... ?True, with a cleat attached to keep the fan from sucking it in.
There is just one 3M filter in each side.....?One on each side
The end of the box is sealed....? true
Is this correct? Ab so Lutely to the bone true
3rd - for the air filter you can put up a picture or an explanation of how you mounted them in the box? such as used a specific type of bracket....etc.

4th - (and final for now) You said that the cheap additional filters didn't make a difference. How long do you go between replacing the better 3M ones?
I was replacing them every few weeks then I realized that I could go outside and use the air hose to blow them clean, I don't replace now untill I actually wear them out or blow a hole in them, sometimes I run the shop vack over them when I'm cleaning up
Thanks for all the info!

Click to expand...

Hope this helps here is a couple of sketches.

Bill,

Thanks for the info and the sketches!

I think this might just end up saving me a few hundered bucks!

cyclone separator?

I'm still looking for info on this if anyone has any.....

Sean Wright said:

In my DC research I came across this cyclone. This guy designed it to connect to a standard DC with either a 4in or a 6in port.

http://www.cycloneseparator.com/

Does anyone have one of these or know if it would be worth adding on to a 1200 CFM DC with a 6in port?

I read that American Woodworker magazine did a review of it in 2005, but I can't seem to find a posting of that review online.

Thanks !

Click to expand...

Old Grizzly DC and Pentz cyclone

I made a Pentz cyclone, to be used with my existing 4 bag Grizzly DC. It only cost me $50 for the sheet metal, held together with pop rivets , then soldered. Took about 8 hours to build, having the sheet metal rolled and folded at the shop I bought the 4x10 sheet from. I use about 4 ft of 6" pipe to hook it to my DC. Does a pretty good job at separating the dust and chips. I have a 13 ft ceiling in my garage, so to gain space I mounted the 175 pound DC 7 ft off the floor. The cyclone is mounted to a 2x2 melamine sheet, fastened into a corner. That way I can pull the garbage can out to be emptied. Pulling up on a handle on the 2x2 sheet, allows the garbage can to slide back in.

Bill,

I just picked up the parts needed to make an air cleaner along the lines of yours. I will put up some pictures when I finish.

thanks again for the idea and the pictures.