My version of why WOODCRAFT stores will not survive.....

Rob Keeble

Member
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Location
GTA Ontario Canada
So this past weekend i took a trip to Letchworth State park just south of Rochester.

Well part of the plan Linda and i have it to get into carving. The whittling was just a trial run to test the waters.

So i had drawn up a list of goodies i wanted to buy and given we were in the area of the relevant store (Woodcraft ) and had a duty free allowance which helped with savings, we thought it would be cool to stop in and buy direct from the store the tools we wanted.

Well.....I wanted a set of Pfeil chisels, this store had all the individual chisels but none of the sets.

So i looked at the chisels then checked out the list of chisels in the set i wanted and then approached the guy that had initially helped us.
I asked if they would supply me the individuals at a set price if i took the full set.

Nope. I said but you can order the set and replace the ones i have purchased. Nope set comes with a tool roll. I said i dont mind forgoing not having the tool roll. Nope then went on to give me some nonsense story about how the price of the set versus the price of the individual tools is different for them blah blah blah.

This is when i said ok thanks i will order them online. But i was mad. :bang::bang: I am a big believer in supporting local stores and i see tourism as part of this process. This guy could have had a few hundred dollar sale that day instead he got nothing from me. I had other things on my list but i was so mad at the lack of flexibility that i just left.

Now i fully realize the cost of stocking everything for a hobby thats a niche in the first place (woodworking) never mind a further niche within the niche (carving). But if i were into this situation i would keep the common sets and make the individual chisels special order given if someone wants a very specific sweep they were surely already committed to carving and it was not on a par with something that everyone is buying and expect them to have it in stock.

I could have looked to go over the guys head which normally i would but with my wife in tow i was not going to freak her out by performing. She also could not believe the mentality.

So for my part they just lost the sale and they deserve to end up closing their doors and when they do i will not shed a tear.

Dad always said .........half a loaf is better than none and they need to learn that.
 
...But if i were into this situation i would keep the common sets and make the individual chisels special order given if someone wants a very specific sweep they were surely already committed to carving and it was not on a par with something that everyone is buying and expect them to have it in stock...

I agree with your logic on this, Rob. Maybe even keep a few of the common individual chisels in stock along with a few kits.

It's a shame when a store (or its employees) become so robotic that they can't accommodate a request like yours (to sell you individual tools for the price of a set, then replenish the tools by ordering a set). I suspect they couldn't wrap their minds around the SKU jockeying they'd need to do to make it work on the computer. :rolleyes:
 
I've found in Woodcraft stores, it can also depend on who you are speaking to. Some are more customer oriented than others. The few stores I've been in the sales people have been mostly retired guys supplementing their own woodworking hobbies. Some should be there, some should stay at home in their shop. Last time I was in one, there two guys standing by the cash register, picking their noses and one that was running his legs off trying to help people. Even though I only get to one once in a great while, none near me, it angered me and I walked out without buying anything.
 
Wow, must be the culture of that chain, seems like I've had the same experience with mine, which I'll avoid if at all possible. The one we have used to be a mom/pop shop and had great service. They even had the woodworking club you could pay into to use the tools in the back shop at your leisure. Once they converted to woodcraft, many of the bins went empty, the shop closed down, and service went to zilch.
 
Bummer Rob. However, I hope (for Woodcraft's sake) you just caught one less than stellar employee on a bad day. Just speaking from my own experience with the Woodcraft here in Boise, you could search a long time and in many places and not find a more cooperative and accommodating retailer. They've bent over backwards for me on several occasions. Three weeks after I purchased my drill press table it went on sale at a different supplier. I casually mentioned this to the manager noting my usual poor timing. He said, well, you're right, that's bad timing. Then he went over to the register and gave me a gift card for the difference! :thumb: Hard to beat service like that.

I hope yours was an isolated incident, but if it is indicative of the service at that store I can agree that they might not last long.
 
Sadly, not an exception, but a corporate mentality. Some years ago, I looked into the franchise with a friend and a group of investors. We were looking at ~$750,000 upfront to open the doors. Not a matter to take lightly. The corporate mentality was excessively rigid and our investors backed off. There was no room for local interests, no flexibility in inventory, no control over much of anything. The store computers are tied to corporate and all real decisions get made there. Our investors showed us that we would be glorified employees, without the benefit of being employees, and having to fork over three quarters of a million dollars for the privilege. One of the reasons to build a business is to have an asset to someday sell. That was another item that would have been nearly impossible under their terms. There is more, but there is no reason to continue. My investors were smart business people that I knew and respected. They deduced that more than half of the franchises would either fail or be turned back over to corporate. As I have watched, very peripherally, that is exactly what has happened and perhaps will continue to do so. Not only do I not shop at Woodcraft, I never even look to see if they have what I might need. My personal experience and opinion. Take it or leave it. Your mileage may vary. FWIW, Rockler is not much different, except they are corporate stores with a few 'franchises' in existing businesses, i.e., Woodworker's Emporium in Las Vegas. There is a bit more flexibility depending on the local manager. Best one was in San Diego. Others I have been in didn't rate my return. I don't shop them either unless they have an exclusive item, i.e., the table saw clamps mentioned in another thread a few days ago. I confess to being an Amazon shopper. It's easier.
 
I too agree that this is not an exception but, rather the rule. Woodcraft has all the telltale signs of a franchise business model that is focused on corporate profits versus franchisee success. My first exposure to Woodcraft was in central CA; a 'corporate store'. Back in the early 2000's this store was great; everyone was happy, the shelves were always stocked, the customer came first, etc. If something wasn't right, they made it right. They would even order things and let you pick them up in the store sans shipping.

I had the chance to revisit this store a few years ago. It had become a franchise. The stock was low, shelf space was bare, staff were grouchy, etc. I mentioned to one of the guys I recognized as to how things had changed. Bemoaning his choice to quit Woodcraft-proper and go to work for the owner, tales of short orders and slowness to backfill popular items were forthcoming. Now, obviously a franchisee doesn't have the capital to tie up in stocking the store that corporate headquarters does. As described to me, this was not the problem. What seemed to be mismanagement was stated to be difficulties and inflexibilities in ordering. The owner couldn't stock in a manner that targeted "his" customer base as opposed to what Woodcraft tells you to stock.

I am sure this is only part of the story but, when you are a store that is generally more expensive than other sources, I expect exemplary service to come with that increased cost. I am still on the mailing list and try to shop with them. Poor price position and high shipping costs usually send me elsewhere. It pains me a bit to buy 'made in America' products from Canada since they will hit my door for less money, with better service and a stronger customer service ethic than a store right down the street. Woodcraft may not fail real soon but, they failed me years ago.
 
Oh boy not what i had anticipated to hear. Lets hope the Woodcraft guys read web posts. If ever they needed to see on this would be it. Sad really.

For what its worth i have yet to come across a company as committed to customer service as Lee Valley is. They take the gold prize for customer service and its regardless of the product they sell they just do and know how to do it.
 
I'm not familiar with all the reasons, but I do know Woodcraft 'used' to have a store in Reno.

That void has been filled by some folks. I think they even managed to purchase the fixtures from the woodcraft store that closed.

To go in, it looks very similar. Maybe a little smaller selection of some items, but I'm really hoping these guys make it work.

Good reminder to go visit them and pick up some items.
 
We just lost a really good woodworking store nearby in Cincinnati last month, Hardwood Lumber and More, They had a great selection of items, and held classes on all sorts of sorts on Saturday's each week form Chair caning, finishing, to cabinet construction. The owner was a previous employee of Paxton Lumber that lost his job due to their changing from retail to a wholesale dealer. He and his wife opened the store 5 years ago with hope of selling it when their retirement time came along. Long story short, they are in their 70's, and decided to slow down from the brick and mortar store and tried to find a new owner with no results. It probably is a tough business for a segment of customers that prefer the box stores to a good service oriented and knowledgeable owner. It seems to be the world we live in today.
 
Woodcraft - I have two that I go to from time to time.

One is in Cleveland, 60 miles away, and is a small store, with pretty limited inventory. Their staff is surly, not well-informed, and generally the store is not all that great to go to. I buy sandpaper there on occasion, but not much else.

The other one is in Columbus, 175 miles away. It's a bigger store, and the staff is friendly, outgoing, and generally quite well informed as to product availability, how to use products, etc. The store is clean, and pretty well stocked. BTW, I spent nearly $200.00 there last week. I'm not a really big fan of Woodcraft, and their pricing is relatively high, but buying at the store at least saves me the shipping cost.

My overall favorite supplier (brick and mortar) is Hartville Hardware. They're about 45 miles from here, and have just about the best selection of tools and hardware anywhere, with knowledgeable staff, and a friendly atmosphere.

For online ordering, It's a toss-up between Lee Valley and Highland Woodworking. Both are great to deal with, and both have tremendous variety in their inventory, I hardly ever experience a "backorder" at either place.

I also use Amazon, and have had nothing but good service from them.

YMMV...
 
I had an experience with Highland. Ordered a router. It came in a wine box, not a regular box. The original packing for the router was missing. The manual was missing. It turns out that the shipper created some kind of damage and just stuffed everything into a box with a bunch of packing material.

Highland, very politely said send it back and sent me a prepaid label.

In the interim I had been talked, by Glenn, into a different model. Highland sent me the Glenn recommended model for the difference in price and NO shipping costs.

THAT IS SERVICE. Especially since the router was on sale in the first place.

I also get wonderful service from Lee Valley and my local (an hour away) Rockler.

That's my 2c worth.

Enjoy,
JimB
 
well i guess i am lucky, our nearest woodcraft is top notch, always had good service and the staff may not be knowledgeable of the methods or products but will try to get you to those that are.. the prices are higher than online pricing but the staff are worth the extra sometimes.. they will do everything needed to make the customer happy. and they have everything from tooling to lumber.. and they even remember your face and usually your name:)
 
My nearest Woodcraft is 110 miles away. They have been great to me and others from my area. They said they'd give me 10% on anything I buy if I drive to their store. I stated that to other locals and that same store extended the discount to those other local people too! Over the years I have bought numerous tools from that store....my PM3520B, my dill press, two Jet air filters systems, a GI mortise....... They will even take a call from me and ship something to me. A local courier service makes daily runs between Lewiston, ID and Spokane, WA so I can often have same day delivery. Nice folks and they treat me right.
 
I'm not sticking up for Woodcraft. I've had so many bad experiences at their Woburn, Ma store that I will never go into it again. However, I can understand why they wouldn't sell you the chisels at a full set price even if they wanted to. Computerized inventory replacement is so sku specific it would of been a nightmare to straighten out their inventory since everything is controlled by corporate. I can't understand why they wouldn't offer you a discount on the individual chisels though. It would of been good customer relations.
The Woodcraft store I go is about an hour away in Newington, NH. The employees are very knowledgeable and courteous. The franchise owner is very knowledgeable but could use an intensive course in customer service. I'm pretty sure that they are struggling financially. They are quite often out of most everything for weeks at a time which leads me to believe that their replenishment is being held up waiting for payment. I've offered to buy multiple items several times for an additional discount and was refused by the owner. I offer to buy all of one discontinued pen kit (50 pcs) for a little better pricing and was refused. I don't mind being refused a better deal I just don't appreciated a sarcastic attitude from the owner.
So, Woodcraft is not on top of my list of places to shop. Rockler's store is a little closer, has much better prices and better customer service. The staff is not quite as knowledgeable but most of the time I go there with specific product in mind recommended by the real pros. FWW folks :D
 
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I guess Larry and I are lucky with our woodcraft, he has already gave a good description of ours and I agree completely with him. I will add that over the past few years, they have expanded 2 times and is a fantastic store. The Foote's (owners) are great folks, always willing/wanting to help and yes, the coffee pot is always on:)
 
The very first time I went into my closest Woodcraft store is when I learned to turn a pen. The owner was there working, we talked, a heck of a nice guy. He had cashed in his 401 and was planning this for a retirement. It is about 80 miles one way from me I guess. Anyway, went back as often as I could/needed to, noticed on the third and fourth visit when the owner wasn't there that it was a completely different atmosphere. No one cared, they stayed behind the counter, weren't helpful. So I did nicely tell him how the store was completely opposite of what it was when he was there, he was not surprised, don't know if he ever took it up with his employees. The next time I went back they were closed down, store empty. I feel sorry for that man's loss. The catalogs confused me for a while, why would you in this day and age put up a store front then compete with your corporation with their own catalog? It is ripe for failure especially after reading Carol's post.
 
There was a WC in Santa Rosa where I work, but the economy took that out. There is one in Dublin on the drive up . I stopped to see what all the fuss was about. Clean, well stocked, 6-8 employees. I thought a couple pen kits were in order...what else...right? $22.50 for a Sierra EB I get for $9.50 at Beartooh Woods!!! Add the $5.25 for shipping, free blanks and keeping a "little guy" in business...WC can kiss the bottom of my feet. A couple of the lumber shops in town have started carrying pen kits, CA and other nick nacks; poor planning on my part means I won't be stuck shopping at WC. Even places like CSUSA have an order to my door in 3 days. Mail order and PayPal is all I need!
 
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