PID Build - Updated

Well Brent I am in the process of putting mine together. Had to check up on what you did because i wanted to do away with the thermostat but upon opening it i realized if i butcher the insides which are not quiet suited to butchering then there is no turning back and i want to smoke some meat tomorrow.

Like your idea of adding in a receptacle. Wish i thought of that before buying my enclosure and you dead right about the cost of them. Think i still have space. But upon revisiting this thread I am now thinking otherwise having picked up an arduino at Xmas. :)

Need to leave room for expansion. So maybe i will use a different enclosure i was saving for another project.

Will leave a cut out for the thermocouple connectors because i too want to add in meat temp sensing. Maybe a stand alone temp display too. :huh: Project just went from simple quick fix to rethink. Glad i aint cut the holes yet. :rofl:
 
You'll love this one Rob. I've recently picked up some arduino based devices called 'Pinoccio'. https://pinocc.io/

I backed them for their kickstarter campaign and got mine a few weeks ago.

What these do is make it really pretty easy to connect to these devices over the internet. One of the devices gets a wifi backpack, and the rest of your 'troop' communicates via a rf 'mesh' network.

I'm turning one of my scouts into a fermentation chamber monitor controller.

I just ordered another one and I'm planning on making that one into a web enabled smoker controller...

The base boards are arduino compatible with the added benefit of the mesh networking. Cool stuff.
 
Brent i love the look of those devices. Cant wait to get my hands on some but have a few other projects in the works first.

Now given this thread shows people about the PID and use of SCR to manage the temp of their smoker i thought i would post some info here related to your update regarding the timing of the units output.

The thing about all these kinds of things and theory is that until one has personally experienced certain things happening some dont believe them possible.

So i want to add a few things here about some of my practices that make things safer in the long run.

I dont like crimp to wire lugs, i dont believe the resulting contact is a good one especially if the connection carries high current or is critical to the safe operation of a device. So what i do is solder the lugs on yeah its a pain but i know the joint is sure.

Second never screw down on a bare wire in a terminal. I have no idea how this has survived in code all these years in the electrical world. I was taught to put a ferrule over wire and then insert that into a screw type clamp terminal so that 1) all the wire is in the ferrule ensuring you using the full cross sectional area of the specified wire for the connection such that it comfortably carries the load. 2) now the screw terminal is clamping down on the ferrule and not the wire which if there is no tab beneath the screw it normally cuts into the wire and relies in essence on the tightness of the entry way to hold all the wire for clamping.

For this kind of connection to be safe the screw has to be properly snugged down and the wire should not be open to being moved. ie good practice is a tie bar. But that is not done in electrical panels.
My memory "blisters on my hand" that make me do this the long hard way are witnessing a glowing circuit breaker in real life when the connection to a high current device was not tight enough to prevent the joint from becoming a resistor and heating up.

Then when the opportunity to do so arises i always put a ring lug on so the connection cannot fall out the way a fork lug can. Again a bit more fiddle work.

Now with a soldered lug and ring lug all that needs to happen to have a safe joint is to make sure you tightened down on the lug ring with the screw.

This is what caused me to change out the screw terminal on my DP motor the other day which i posted a thread on in safety section here .

I know i am sounding like an old granny but hey rather that than have a fire.

This video brings this whole issue to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_5tGAZD64

I am all for modern gadgets and techie stuff but if applied the way things look in you tube videos without full attention to other details then oops things will happen.

So to validate what Brent said about not feeling comfortable with the PID output proportion on this setup watch the video and it gives you an idea of what happens to an SCR when it goes through these cycles.

Where i have issue with the guy doing the video is the lack of attention to how to secure the terminals to the SCR. These devices are design to switch fast that's their differentiating advantage over physical contacts. What needs to be attended to is whether the connections are done properly to handle the load and not create a resistive joint.

If a lug is used and properly seated then it will act like a washer and be securely clamped provided you not using a Tai Chi terminal block like was in my DP motor.

Many people will think well i dont have a lug so i will solder the end of my wires and put them in that way and this will ensure i get all the wire under the screw.

WRONG. For those that want to dabble and dont know solder will flow under pressure and you will get a loose joint and you will have a safety issue. How bad will just depend on what you connecting up.

Again my ancestors in the desire to make things cheap and easy our three pin plug system used a round piece of brass as a connector going into a round hole on the wall receptacle. Nice 1/4 inch chunk of brass not a super cheap metal. Then what they did was to drill a hole sideways through said brass rod and another on the top side which was drilled and tapped. A small brass screw was then used to come in from the top and clamp down on wire pushed through the side hole. The screw would notoriously cut the stranded wire on appliances and the hole on the side would be so small that getting stranded wire to go through as a total bunch meant twisting it up or what some appliance manufacturers did that thought they were making it easy for people to put a plug on was to dip the ends in solder. Go figure they just added to the problem.

So yeah i guess i am probably a pain in the but with these comments because when i build something like this i make up discrete individual wires with both ends terminated in lugs that can attach to each end. In the case of the parts used in the BBQ Smoker Brent has shared, all the devices needed have screw terminals. So its pretty easy to do this.

By lugs i mean these things just in case my terminology dont match yours.

wp5218ad1d.jpg
 
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Here is are a few pics of my unit . This will be the temp prototype, the final unit is waiting on the thermocouple connectors and another temp display and some alarm output devices and and and ...perhaps an arduino at some stage. That depends on Darren and his software for the logger...hint hint hint Darren. :)

20140515_103442.jpg20140515_103421.jpg20140515_103426.jpg

One other thing to add to the prior post is that you should use thermal paste between the heatsink and the SCR. That will allow a thermal bond to be formed to get heat out to the heatsink. Another thing the guy in the video did not think to mention.
 
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So that video you posted has me thinking about the way I have the pid configured.

right now I have it set to not really do the time proportioned output. Might have to think about those default values I have set on there.

It does work fine now, and does not stay on for too long a period of time, but I wonder about the cycle time, if maybe I set it to do the proportional. Is there really any reason the heating element cant handle the pulses? It's basically just a big resistor that turns electricity into heat. Why would it care about the cycling?
 
Brent the only thing i can think is that its also a fair size inductor with essentiall only one turn. I dont see any issue given its job is to dissipate heat caused by current flow.
I wish i had a scope because i would like to see the waveform on the off pulse.
Any issues here the kid in the firing line is actually the SCR. But as Darren pointed out to me there is a snubber circuit built into that so provided it clamps any back emf on the off edge of the pulse i dont see a problem either. Connections are the bigger thing to worry about.
Oh and dont do the stupid thing i did. Lol. Got to messing with the programming and was wondering why the oven was taking so long to get up to my setpoint which just happened to be 225 . well oven on full ball for ages got to 209 and would not go further. Scratched my head then i remembered i set it to measure in celcius when i was testing and had not changed back to farenheight. So my oven was actually at around 400 F.lol.
Definitely a neat little setup and Brent the thanks all go to you for pioneering and testing.
Now all i want to do is smoke everything. Lol.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
well oven on full ball for ages got to 209 and would not go further. Scratched my head then i remembered i set it to measure in celcius when i was testing and had not changed back to farenheight. So my oven was actually at around 400 F.lol.

HAh! At least you now know the max temp of the smoker! Plenty hot to cook a bird for sure!
 
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I somehow managed to misplace the last 2 PID Controllers I built and neglected to make another one for myself. I had the box all cut up and the parts all available, but had just never gotten around to putting it together.

Well, today I wanted to make some snacking sticks (Think slim jims, but made out of 100% ground beef, and a lot fewer 'mystery meat parts').

The recipe I was using called for smoking at a low temperature and I knew that I'd have a hard time managing that using the standard thermostat controller on the smoker, so I spent a little time this morning putting ti all together.

Loving it again. Tomorrow? Slow smoked ribs...

20150509_124945.jpg
 
I have to admit, I tried using the autotune on the pid, and finally went back to my original settings I posted in this thread and those setting seem to be doing a much better job of holding the temperature. Why didn't I do this sooner?

Here's a link to the recipe I used for the snack sticks.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/130178/snack-stick-recipe#post_882952

Big Casino's Snack Stick Recipe
My beef stick recipe

5lb ground beef
1cup ice water
1tsp insta-cure
4tsp salt
1TBS brown sugar
1tsp ground mustard
2tsp whole mustard seed
1tsp coarse ground black pepper - add more if you like pepper taste
2tsp white ground pepper - substitute with black pepper if you dont have this
1TBS Paprika
1tsp onion powder - more or less to taste
1tsp garlic powder - more or less to taste

If you like it hot add the following
2TBS crushed red pepper
2TBS ground cayenne pepper - more or less to taste

mix all spices and cure#1 into 1 cup of ice cold water mix into ground beef until mixed through
stuff into casing, hang at room temp until casings are dry, approx 1 to 2 hrs,
place into smoker preheated to around 130 degrees for one hour to dry casings, then add smoke for 1hr or until desired color, then raise heat to 150 for one hr then raise heat to 180 until an internal temp of 152 to 160 degrees,
place into ice cold water until IT drops below 90, if you want you can then spray the sticks with hot water to remove any grease on the casings, then rinse in cold water again then bloom sticks at room temperature until casings are dry or desired color is obtained then refrigerate in a brown paper bag
 
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