Buying a generator

Carol Reed

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Coolidge, AZ
So, OK. I need to buy a generator to work on the Putter Palace where it currently sits. I need at least 30 amps of 220V to power the PP. 50 would be better, but let's be serious. Right now the tow guys have sopped up a signification portion of my net worth and I still need to buy another trailer. That will be another story.

Only things I know so far is it should be a Honda and I don't want to buy a new one. Looked at CL. Wow! Too many choices. What do all those model numbers mean?

So, tell me. What do I need to know before I engage in some serious looking?
 
.... Too many choices. What do all those model numbers mean?

Sorry I'm no help other than having Google as my friend :D

Here's a snippet I found here

What do the Honda generator numbers mean?

Honda generator numbers look like EM5000SXK2 A EANC-1000001. These numbers are located on a tag on the generator frame.

The first spot E is for Honda Generator, all Honda generators start with E.

The next spot M denotes the generator style: B = construction, D = DC battery charging, G = economy, M = deluxe, N = economy, P = economy, S = liquid cooled (except ES3500 and ES4000), V = rv, W = welder/generator, U = ultra-quiet, X = extra quiet, Z = economy.

If there is another letter after the last spot: D = 120/240 rv generator (EVD4010), S = electric starter (EMS4500), W = welder (EXW171).

The next spot 5000 is the maximum wattage or amperage.

The next spot S is the generator or starter type: S = electric starter, i = inverter type, C = cycloconverter type, D = diesel, GP = gaseous powered, C = made in China.

The next spot X is the engine type: blank = side valve, X = OHV.

The next spot K2 is the generator version.

The next spot A denotes the market. A is for the USA market, all generators sold in the USA should end with A. The last set of numbers is the generator serial numbers EANC-1000001.


Hope this helps a little! :wave:
 
Carol,

There is a quieter line of Honda generators last I knew. Listening to one for long a few decibels makes a lot of difference. If I remember correctly every three decibels the perceived sound doubles so a few decibels difference in noise makes a big difference in perceived noise.

Another issue with generators is how clean the power output is. Some generators put out much more consistent power than others. Honda offers several lines that are the same size but very different in price. I suspect the quality of the output is a major difference. It won't take care of everything like a very high dollar line conditioner but plan on putting a decent power supply/surge suppressor between the generator and any electronics including the electronic variable speed lathes. Not sure how to do that, may take some wiring mods to pull the amperage of a lathe directly and the controls through a power supply to keep costs down. After Katrina and several other named storms my main line of communication was the internet and I did run computers for short periods each day on cheap generators however that is definitely gambling. Cell towers go dead in a few hours when their battery back-ups are used up, something that was a major foul-up following Katrina. Most emergency services had planned to use cells as their primary communication link. Cell didn't work for weeks.

A generator is definitely something you need to do your homework on before purchasing or realize that you may be reselling it to buy one for longer term use. A final warning, make sure that you consider air flow, possible air pockets and ventilation when positioning a generator. If working inside a closed space like a trailer be sure to have the usual battery powered air quality monitors in place. Even working outside air pockets can be dangerous and almost every named storm a few people are killed due to carbon monoxide build-up in their homes from running generators inside or outside near open windows or even some distance away from a window but with walls and other obstructions serving to funnel the fumes into the home. A wind change or just an odd eddy from the truck and trailer can direct fumes to where you are at.

I realize this isn't your first rodeo but simple mistakes can get any of us into a lot of trouble sometimes. Lost a friend to carbon monoxide poisoning in his pick-up truck. He was a very smart guy, a mechanic shop owner, and kept his truck in excellent shape. Nobody knows the full story. He and a friend going deer hunting, definitely an accident that killed both. I suspect the gas had already affected their judgment on the road, they were found parked by the woods ready to hunt, gas tank empty and key on.

Hu
 
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Good warning, HU, but how can I know about clean power. The lathe does have electronic variable speed. Rather get the 'one for longer term use' the first time.

Also Honda does have two lines of quieter generators given their rather long model numbers as outlined by Ken above. So noted.
 
Hu really hits the important points, so the only thing that I will add is the old saying is true, "You get what you pay for".

I would be a little worried about buying a used generator if it is going to your primary source of electrical power in your traveling life. If it craps out on you, the repairs could easily exceed the cost of a new one. If it was someone that I knew took care of their tools, that would be different, but just some random stranger off CL? Not for my money. Who knows how the unit was treated, was it maintained or what?

Sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket on your pricing idea, but if you spend the money and buy a good new one, it will serve you very well for many many years to come.

Just my 2 cents worth :D
 
I've never tried to power tools with a generator, but I have tried them on some appliances that had sophisticated electronics. Some times the don't work at all, other times I've (I think) caused some damage. The Honda inverter lines (I think Yamaha makes some equivalent ones as well that may be a little cheaper) go up to 6500 watts, and are the Cadillac models. They all start with EU in the model designation. I'd stay with one of them. But there is a fair amount of sticker shock...even the little 200 watt model I have for emergencies was about $850, and that was 3 years ago.
 
Second what Hu & Stu said to the nines!

Also, and particularly if running at night when trying to sleep, if you can find a generator that normally runs at idle speed at no-load, then revs up upon demand, that will save fuel & won't keep you & your neighbors awake at night.

Hard to beat a Honda motor!
 
Carol,

It has been years since I researched generators and I don't remember if the research or the information given with the generator was how we learned about the quality of the output. Several different types of generators and it is also a place where I have to agree, you pay for quality. Unfortunately you pay for name too, which may be possible to avoid with a little homework. We own a pair of generators, I think a 5500 from Home Depot and a little Honda. The little Honda was about $150 more than the unit with much more capacity, close to twice as much best I recall. One unit here, the little Honda seventy miles away so it is hard for me to give you hard numbers.

Stuart brings up a good point about used but down here and I suspect other places many people buy generators when a major storm looks like it will hit and either take them back to the store or let them sit unused until they decide they are in the way or the people need a little money. Good deals on used generators with low or no hours are very common. The cost of a new carburetor or a rebuild is pretty low and that is about the worst thing that goes bad on one that sits for just a year or two. The mechanic in a bottle stuff has been working great for us on both two and four cycle engines that have been sitting up. When you need one pretty fast the best reason for buying new is to get exactly what you want. That may be a good enough reason.

A little more alert this morning, if you find yourself going new for a long term unit you might consider a propane fueled generator. Much cleaner burning than gas and more reliable I believe. Another plus, need to run stabilized gas in a generator that you don't know how often will be ran, propane stores indefinitely until you need it and I assume you will have bottles for other uses. I think propane may be safer concerning fumes too but not positive about that. Small diesel fired generators too but that brings you to three types of fuel on hand, too much headache and diesel always gets on you handling it or running diesel pumps, seems to be some sort of natural law. Forgetting you have diesel for the bubba truck so the three fuels might not be a consideration. I still think if I paid a premium for the specialty fueled generator I would go with propane. My brother is building a new home very soon including a large propane generator and storage tank so if need be he can go off the grid for weeks.

Hu
 
My apologies in advance for the long post but there is a bit to be said.

Carol I can speak from personal experience with this issue. After moving to our new temp home, I purchased what I considered to be a large new generator to power my workshop requirements due to the power conditions at the temp home.

Despite using overkill by far, gauge wire to run from Generator to a panel and then to supply receptacles and power tools, I have found huge issue with the concept when it comes to high startup current associated with a machine like my 3HP jointer.

Initially I blamed belt slop and a dud start capacitor for my issues. fitted new start cap and blew that. Have the third start cap and will first check the motor centrifugal switch and will feed power cord extremely shortened to just as long as it has to be to get from jointer to gen and see if that works.

My generator according to all the specs and reading I have done should be able to handle the load. The jointer has run on the generator twice but where the issue comes in is in the startup.

A motor of 3HP 220v type draws an incredible current on startup spike, I cannot measure it and although we can read about approximately where the spike should go this will have a lot to do with how the power factor of the motor is setup which goes back to design which I am sorry to say given my jointer is tai chi I don't have a lot of faith that the design is a great one.

The initial clue to me in this respect is the mere fact that the supply voltage is 220v rating for the motor and the start cap is rated a 250v normally one would look at these and say yeah that's ok but in my electrical engineering education I would have said the tolerance is way to thin. Of course greater voltage would have meant greater cost and size all impacting on ex factory cost etc.

So even in the case of my jointer as Stu so aptly said ,,,,,,/"You get what you pay for" . :)

Now my generator is a Champion, definitely not putting out clean power...but for a plain old motor it should work. The issue is what is happening to the voltage when start up occurs and the spike current loads hit that generator circuit and if that voltage fails to hold then the whole power as in Power equals Voltage times Current is adversely affected, never mind the fact that in ac current power is not simply voltage times current but should include power factor.

In my research for the reasons Hu mentioned and then definitely for the reasons once again that Stu (specifically the second hand aspect) mentioned... I decided I would buy new and buy bigger than needed because I was/am only going to run one machine at a time.

Of course I am discounting worrying about issues such as my variable speed routers, my newest Milwaukee is a 3HP too but its not 220v but its variable speed and I am merely going on the logic of the conditions which I have seen pros on jobsites working with them so feel that should get by. ( again speculation...have not tried it and even then done so for a long period.)

Of course noise is another factor. When you look at good quality makes like Honda you get silence as bonus, not total but way better than the likes of the unit I have. Again this started/resulted in a further must do first project of building an enclosure to silence it given the neighbors. That project has been put on hold until such time as I sort out if this thing will run the jointer.

The next issue is since my shoulder dislocation last year, yanking on a pull to start unit well that's risky and not fun. My unit was not available in Canada as electric start more specifically at the price I was initially prepared to layout (since I got mine on a sale). The unit is available in the US with electric start and I am/have been looking into obtaining the required parts and retrofitting but on hold out until I resolve whether this will run the jointer.

This of course has all been nothing but a huge distraction from the hobby and frankly I am running thin on bothering with it anymore given the time I have to spare on it and what I wish to be doing in that time. Hence my move to carving or other things. I don't plan on being in this temp home for long and the more time I put into it the more it detracts from my other objectives.

To be specific here is my generator model http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/41154/

says 5500 running watts and 6250 starting watts.

@ 6250 start with 220v I should be good for a start current of roughly 28 amps.

Grizzly specs my motor at 15 amps ....???? and recommends a 20Amp circuit breaker.

But bear in mind the centrifugal switch on these motors is supposed to remove the start cap from the circuit once motor gets up to operating speed in my case 3450 rpm.

Before I blame the generator and pack it all in, I am going to haul the motor out and take a look at said switch just to make sure its not the cause of the whole cap blowing issue. I will also couple it as said, as close to generator as physically practical with as short and thick a lead as practical and see if anything changes. Only reason I am bothering is I have cherry I now wish to joint for several projects on hold.

So bear in mind these issues. My guess is to properly run the putter palace is going to take a generator of significant dollars if its going to meet all the requirements.

Sorry to be a wet blanket but better warned than not.

I will try to take some time out and see if I can attend to looking into my issues so as to be able to clarify my problems before you end up springing for a generator just so you know for certain.

But the issues of noise and quality of power don't change.
 
After the famous ice storm of 2009 my wife demanded that if such a thing happens again she wanted to be able to flush the toilets during a power outage.:rolleyes: I sold our little 3500 generator and bought a 10,000 from Sam's for under $900.00, delivered. It is not a Honda, it is a Gentec. I have no intention of using it for shop tools, just emergency lighting, frig, freezer and well. If you want a Honda do expect to spend some serious money. If you are willing to consider options, check out Sam's and Northern Tool.
Like others, I would be leery of buying used.
 
My apologies in advance for the long post but there is a bit to be said.

Carol I can speak from personal experience with this issue. After moving to our new temp home, I purchased what I considered to be a large new generator to power my workshop requirements due to the power conditions at the temp home.

Despite using overkill by far, gauge wire to run from Generator to a panel and then to supply receptacles and power tools, I have found huge issue with the concept when it comes to high startup current associated with a machine like my 3HP jointer.
. . . . . . .

Rob,

Old motors and I suspect some of the cheap motors of today can draw three times or more running amperage on start-up. I think quality motors of today have reduced that quite a bit, maybe to only fifty percent more but always a spike I believe. Many an old house would blow the main breaker a time or two a month. The only time they blew a breaker was when two air conditioners or an air conditioner and refrigerator kicked on at the same time or overlapping the high current needs. Power issue with my lathe sometimes, I give it a whorl and hit the switch while it is still spinning, saves blown breakers. For some reason I don't recommend that technique with a jointer!(grin)

Caps confuse me, they rate them by voltage but that isn't what matters apparently. My two-twenty central air runs 600 volt caps best I remember. Sounds like you know far more about electricity than I do but I wonder if there is a slow blow breaker option for your generator? Some generators do have them as an option if I recall correctly. I have ran them successfully in standard feeds from the power company to get past that starting load from motors.

Hu
 
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