Handling Winter

Ryan Mooney

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The Gorge Area, Oregon
We just got home an hour or so ago right in front of some more freezing rain, feeling pretty good about ourselves we parked the car and started moving stuff into the house. About 4 minutes later the car starts heading down the hill towards the neighbors rig and the BIG hill, which would have ended poorly except it stopped on a small bump before it could get to far (about 15'). A post-mortem of the situation revealed that the tires, hot from having covered some 600+ miles straight, had melted the thin layer of snow on the driveway which refroze into ice under them which let the rig break free. Once it got going gravity and newtons first law kicked in until it was luckily stopped by the bump. A quick shoveling followed by some sand and ice melt got the parking area of the driveway into good shape (you know you live in the frozen north when you always have sand and ice melt in stock :D).

This got me thinking about some of the stuff I saw in areas where folks don't get to much snow/ice and how they (sometimes) failed to deal with it very well and thought I might make a short list of things I saw along the way (not that places where people should know better always deal with this stuff as maybe they ought to either). Please feel free to add your own or correct misstatements in mine :D
  • Shovel the snow before putting down ice melt. Otherwise you're just making water which will freeze into more ice which takes longer to thaw and is worse!
  • Shovel the snow before driving or walking on it. Once its packed down its a whole lot more annoying/work to deal with (and if it re-freezes to ice can be impossible to clear). Ice also takes 4-5 time longer to melt than snow and if you can expose the road/driveway sooner rather than later any sun will knock the rest off much quicker (even at below freezing temperatures blacktop heats up pretty fast).
  • If you can, wait until the sun has hit the road for an hour or so, it will soften up the ice/snow and make it less "glassy" so it won't be quite as slick.
  • Clear that layer of ice/snow off of the top of your car. Otherwise it will come off at the worst moment, either when you stop (obscuring your vision, possibly wreaking your wipers if lots of ice) or on the road when it can fly off into someone elses windshield. I saw several cars stopped at parking lot exits while the owner shoveled off the windshield from everything sliding forwards on this trip, lucky for them all I saw happened where it was easy to get out and clear it off...
  • Watch for the "truck droppings" (big chucks of ice/snow off of the bottom of cars/trucks), those are basically solid blocks of ice and can really wreck the underside of your rig
  • Be nice (and smart) and kick the truck droppings off of your truck/car when you stop every so often so you don't leave them for others.. or have them fall off and run over them yourself.
  • Stay back please! Tailgating is always a bad idea, but the folks who do it on ice are really get my goat. You ain't going to be able to stop if you need to and I don't need you running into me!
  • Don't gun it! Stomping on the gas ain't going to get you anywhere (except maybe the ditch) and is almost as bad as slamming on the brakes (maybe worse nowadays with all the magic braking systems). I can't count how many folks don't seem to get this one, easy on, easy off and you'll get there. If you can't go forward gunning it likely won't help, maybe backup a smidge then try easing forward.
  • Sharpen your ice scraper. 5 minutes with a file makes that ice peal off so much easier (doesn't have to be complicated, just get rid of the divots and don't make to thin of an edge). I sharpened ours before the trip and its well due for another round now (chipping ice out of the wheel wells didn't help - the Santa Fe holds the road well, but really seems to be bad for accumulating ice .. everywhere!).
  • Do NOT use cruise control in slick conditions. A co-worker flipped his car 4 times at ~80mph (and luckily wasn't hurt) a couple years back largely because he used cruise control (and was going to fast and stomped the brakes.. but it all adds up :D).
  • Do NOT pass snow plows or sanding trucks!! Especially on the right but generally at all!! They can catch a bump in the road and twist sideways faster than you can blink and many have blades that stick way out further than you'd expect (not to mention they're throwing snow/ice chunks/rocks/gravel off the right side). That was one of the more cringe worthy moments we had on this trip when a car passed us and then the plow in front of us on the right and the plow caught and swung at them (barely missing by maybe a foot or so).
  • Finally SLOW DOWN! I've been in lots of bad weather and watched plenty of folks with more ambition than me fly by and spin off into the ditch (a particularly memorable occasion was during an ice storm in Portland a few years ago when I saw at least 5 cars spin off the road or into the divider in a ~6 mile stretch of road while we breezed on through at 1/4 the speed - literally everyone that passed us ended up in the ditch). And yes I've certainly seen a lot of 4x4s (and around here Subarus which so many people somehow think are invincible its a local running joke) upside down in the ditch as well.
 
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  • Clear that layer of ice/snow off of the top of your car. Otherwise it will come off at the worst moment, either when you stop (obscuring your vision, possibly wreaking your wipers if lots of ice) or on the road when it can fly off into someone elses windshield. ...
I learned this one firsthand. About a week after I bought a new 1984 Bronco II, my dad and I were coming back from a jobsite about 150 miles from home, and I let Dad drive to see what he thought of my new vehicle. Not long after we got onto the highway, a Dodge van passed us, and as he pulled back into our lane in front of us, a sheet of ice flew off the van's roof and shattered my windshield. Fortunately, the windshield held together and we were still able to see out of it (marginally), so we limped it on home before getting it replaced. My dad felt horrible about the whole thing because the vehicle was brand new and he was driving, but there really was nothing he could have done to avoid the sheet of ice.

And I concur with all of your other tips, too. I would also add if your vehicle has anti-lock brakes and/or traction control and you've not got a good feel of them under slick conditions, find an empty parking lot after the first snow or ice storm and intentionally do some skidding, spinning and stopping. Anti-lock brakes are great, but it's a good idea to know how they feel in an intentional forward or sideways skid before you need them in a panic situation. The same goes for traction control, or if you're new to a particular drive system. Rear wheel drive reacts much differently than front wheel drive; same with 4x4 and AWD. (I've done wet, dry, and icy panic stop/skid practice with every vehicle I've ever owned. Time and tire rubber well spent, IMO.)
 
Great thread! Some additional thoughts.

  1. Do not expect or think that 4WD will help when on ice. 4WD is great when in snow or getting out of a "stuck" situation, but when on ice 4 wheels slide just as easily as 2 wheels do.
  2. Use a lawn seed/fertilizer spreader to spread a sand/salt mix, or ice melt. on the driveway. Beats doing it by hand, or with a shovel. Even better, use a plastic spreader as they don't rust out from the salt as metal spreaders do. Do not fill the bucket as this becomes too heavy, use half loads, or less, for a better spread
  3. Be selective if using an ice melt as some can damage concrete steps/walkways, especially concrete less than one year old.
  4. Open up parallel strips of driveway blacktop to expose the black to the sun. These areas heat up faster & spreads the warmth to adjacent areas to hasten the melting from underneath.
  5. If using a parka with a hood when snow blowing the driveway, be careful when approaching the end of the driveway to look for snow plows coming as the hood can prevent "sideways" visibility, plus with the snow blower running you won't hear them either. Snow Plows & Snow Blowers, i.e. you, don't mix well (speaking from experience).
  6. If anticipating a heavy wet snow storm, with significant accumulation, it's easier on the back, and elsewhere, to go out midway during the storm if possible, or during a let-up, to clear the snow rather than waiting for the storm to end & having to handle the deeper, much heavier snow.
  7. Bring your cell phone with you when shoveling the driveway, especially at night. Should you have an accident, or need medical help having the cell phone could be a life saver.
 
One more: Keep a blanket, boots, (extra) gloves, and perhaps some drinking water in the car. That way, if you get stuck in a traffic jam (for five hours, like we did a few years back) you'll still be able to keep warm while running the engine minimally. When that traffic jam finally broke up, there were several cars in it that were now out of gas. Keeping the tank near full - and maybe never letting it get much below half - is always a good idea, too.
 
Good advice Ryan.

This morning we had a light rain and were right on the line between freezing and melting. There were 10 wrecks in the first mile on the highway (all on the opposite side where traffic had been moving faster) and at least 50 cars in the ditch on each side, cleared up after that mile.
 
When turning a corner in snow, slow down before the turn and go around the corner with your foot off the brakes. Turned wheels that are not rotating will slide forward and take you into the ditch or the sidewalk. You want your front wheels rotating to make the turn.

It's helpful to have a big, strong son who owns a snowblower.
 
When I went to set out the garbage at -12ºC last night, and buttoned up my parka to the chin and put on my wool hat and warm gloves, I thought to myself, "Self, there are people living in places all over the world who never have to get dressed like this just to go outside for ten minutes."
 
When turning a corner in snow, slow down before the turn and go around the corner with your foot off the brakes. Turned wheels that are not rotating will slide forward and take you into the ditch or the sidewalk. You want your front wheels rotating to make the turn...

In my experience, if you're in a FWD or 4x4, it's also a good idea to accelerate (lightly) as you go around the corner. Otherwise, you can get an engine braking effect on the front wheels, causing them to lose traction as you turn the wheel. First time I made a 90º right turn at an intersection on slick roads in my first 4x4, I backed off the accelerator just like I had always done in my RWD vehicles, turned the wheel, and proceeded to skid straight through the intersection instead of turning. I ended up making the turn a block later, then circled the block several times getting the hang of powering through the turns. :thumb:
 
Just remembered a "trick" I've used I think 3 times in the past when I was going a touch too fast approaching a stop & the vehicle was sliding with the tires locked up. I threw the vehicle into reverse & fed some gas to get the wheels going backward. Worked beautifully stopping the car more quickly than if I had tried to feather the gas & brakes together. Try it yourself on a practice run & you'll see.
 
In my experience, if you're in a FWD or 4x4, it's also a good idea to accelerate (lightly) as you go around the corner. Otherwise, you can get an engine braking effect on the front wheels, causing them to lose traction as you turn the wheel. First time I made a 90º right turn at an intersection on slick roads in my first 4x4, I backed off the accelerator just like I had always done in my RWD vehicles, turned the wheel, and proceeded to skid straight through the intersection instead of turning. I ended up making the turn a block later, then circled the block several times getting the hang of powering through the turns. :thumb:

Yep agree with this, but that also makes it a good idea to show down before the turn so you have some room to give it a little as you go around. Actually helps on windy mountain roads if you're "making time" in dry weather, the downside is that the aggressive turns can make the dog car sick (personal experience).

On a related note if you can gear down before you start going down a hill that's better than using your brakes. The engine braking has less "grab" than even ABS brakes. The one place I used bad words on this trip was where I started down a hill just a bit to fast and touched the brakes, could feel the tires start to let go so just took my foot of and let it ride, in some cases you have to figure where your headed and how fast is just how it's going to be until you got some flat or barer spots.

The traffic jam one is real good advice. Loml got stuck for several hours last year going over one of the passes to Seattle, doesn't take a whole lot to end up with the road shut down for a long time sometimes and no place to go. Some snacks, water and a warm blanket made it a whole lot more pleasant than it might have been.

Another to add is leave some space between you and the fellow in front of you when you stop, especially on a hill! Even if they ain't sliding backwards now they might start when they try to start and lose traction (or they can have the melt and refreeze spontaneous slide like we did yesterday).
 
...On a related note if you can gear down before you start going down a hill that's better than using your brakes...

Agreed, but you've gotta be careful doing that in a FWD or 4WD, though. Engine braking with the front wheels can get squirrely on slick roads. For that reason I used to keep my Jeep in 2WD (rear) most of the time when driving on slick city streets, just so I could use the tranny as my brakes as much as possible. As short as it was, it would swap ends in a heartbeat if I downshifted too quickly in 4WD.
 
Ryan I have been thinking of you and your post these past weeks with the weather we been having up here. Today in particular i wish i had missiles mounted on my car to take out the 1 in 3 cars that had snow turned to ice on the roof of their car and it was taking flight in huge sheets on the highway specifically with the high winds we were getting today. Man it made me think some nasty thoughts. I was thinking we need a 3rd world war to cull the herd of mankinds brain dead individuals on our roads that are too darn lazy to clean their cars. I am amazed we have not had a news story covering this yet and that there has not been a serious accident posted as a result.

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:thumb:

Ryan I have been thinking of you and your post these past weeks with the weather we been having up here. Today in particular i wish i had missiles mounted on my car to take out the 1 in 3 cars that had snow turned to ice on the roof of their car and it was taking flight in huge sheets on the highway specifically with the high winds we were getting today. Man it made me think some nasty thoughts. I was thinking we need a 3rd world war to cull the herd of mankinds brain dead individuals on our roads that are too darn lazy to clean their cars. I am amazed we have not had a news story covering this yet and that there has not been a serious accident posted as a result.

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Yep its pretty terrifying when a big blob fly's off at you. The incident that actually made me call out the snow on roof problem was a fellow who's car was parked in the exit of a parking lot while he shoveled the snow+ice off of his windshield where it had slid when he stopped before getting on the road. I was just happy it had happened there and not later. Worse were the semi-trucks when a massive blob would fly off of them, but at least I have some sympathy there.
 
I can't remember the name of the law that was named after a young girl who was killed when a sheet of ice flew off a car and smashed through her windshield killing her a few years back, but New Hampshire law says that all ice and snow has to be removed from cars and trucks or you will get a pretty hefty fine.
You still see the lazy morons driving with snow piled on their car though.
 
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