Opinions Wanted

Dave, I really like the design of this chair, but the one thing that bothers me is all of the joinery showing on the front of the arms and the base. Unless you are building this to show off joinery techniques, I think it would look MUCH better with hidden mortises and tenons to present a smooth and unbroken line.

Just my .02--and probably not worth that.

Nancy
 
Nancy, I see your point about the joinery. I just tried to draw the chair as it was built. Here's another example from the designer/builder. I like the bridle joints but don't really care for the wedged tenons in this one.

rusten_palo_d_walnut-1.jpg


And this one has sliding DTs which I like better.
rusten_palo_l_wal-1.jpg


I think there is a nice tactile detail in the relieved edges of the joints on the arm rests.
 
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I like the dovetails better too, but I still think that the hidden mortises and tenons would be better. More mystery to the average lookee-loo as to how it was put together.

Again, another .02.

Nancy
 
I'm having a hard time beleiving the top & bottom joints can take the load in either case. For the bridle joints it's all in the shear strength of the glued area (plus a tiny bit from the pin) and for the sliding dovetail it's all in the inter-fibre cohesion of the female joint half.

I'm not sure I'd dare sit in them!
 
TIm, I know what you mean. They don't appear to be strong enough. Not too long ago there was a video on the internet of a joint strength test. I think it was done by one of the WW mags. They were testing various types of joints to destruction under controlled circumstances and measuring the load at failure. They were getting some amazing loads before joints failed. I don't recall whether they tested bridle joints are not but I think there were some face grain to face grain joints in the group. If I can find it I'll post a link.
 
Dave,

Was the original design done by a guy named Jared Rusten? Looks very similar to Jared's work.

I bought his Parks planer from him when he left town last year and moved back to NY to help a friend work on a nightclub. Didn't have a motor but he had restored it. Another project on my list...

He had a couple of those chairs in his little garage there were prototypes.

He had won some type of design award for that chair, as I recall. I can't remember where, could have been Fine Woodworking Mag.
 
Dave,

Very unique and interesting design. Jared's a great woodworker. I love the toolbox on his webpage, pretty cool...

If you look on his webpage you'll see that most all of his work is named after cities around Silicon Valley...Cupertino, Saratoga, Palo Alto Chair, Los Altos, Santa Cruz (not in the Valley, but close), etc...I live in West San Jose, but it's a pocket right between Cupertino and Saratoga...:)

What I like about his work is that it's obviously modern, but he emphasizes the joinery, similar to how Greene & Greene did. He uses a lot of wedges that stick out, through tenons that stick above/out to create a textured feel/look, plugs that are soft and extruded as well...and interesting designs.

The one thing I remember...he uses exceptional wood, and I asked him where he buys it from, since one place I had been buying wood from is trying to cheat people all the time...and he mentioned that his friend had cut down a tree and milled it up, and they bought it. When he was in the store the next week, there was a pile of it and someone asked about it and they told him it was completely dry to 15% and it was sopping wet...he said he wouldn't buy wood from them either, after that. He did an excellent job at restoring the planer I bought from him. The base wasn't done, but I've done that since, just need to get a pulley/belts and a switch/starter so I can get it running.

FWIW, the chair is more comfortable than it looks.

EDIT: I see others commented on the joinery, I prefer how Jared exposes it, and emphasizes it, and I like the bridle joint better than the dovetail which is semi-hidden. I have a tendancy to like Greene & Greene also though, and they emphasize the joinery as well. Build it the way you like, that way you'll like it, and not what someone else likes.
 
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Thank you for those comments Alan. That's very interesting stuff to read. There was an enjoyable video of him building one of the chairs with the sliding dovetails. I found it through the Fine Woodworking site.

I will probably do a mock up of the chair to make sure I have the dimensions right and take it from there. Have to get approval from my bride, too.

I've got some ideas for a table that I think would go with these chairs. I'll see if I can't draw it up.
 
Dave,

I've never seen his video or even the article and/or award he won, just vaguely remember someone saying it was FWW. Jared used to hang out with the local Bay Area Woodworker's Association (BAWA) which meet around the bay at various venues. It was one of the BAWA members that told me he won a contest with one of his chairs, I think it was that palo alto, but not sure. He's got the most of those palo alto chairs, with various woods, on his site, I remember that.

I love his detail work though, even on the toolbox, I remember the handle had some interesting lines on the ends, refreshing stuff.

We talked quite a bit about Greene & Greene when I bought his planer, I had just been to the Gamble House for the second time a month or two before.

His work is interesting as he uses some of the same/similar techniques that the Hall Bros. did on the Greene & Greene work, like the dark pyramid plugs, but he incorporates it into his work with his own style, and that's what I like about Rusten's work. It's refreshing, and very original. He seems to look at his pieces as art, and the Hall Bros. did also, in their own way. Some don't care for their work either, so it's more a matter of taste. To me that's the difference between hidden joinery and excentuated joinery, and the Hall Bros. always tried to excentuate it rather than hiding it. That's why you rarely see dovetails in Arts & Crafts work, the A&C era tried to excentuate it. Greene & Greene incorporated fancy scarfs joints, even in the foundation sills, as seen in this picture.

(linky pic for visually normalized people, bottom left is the scarf I'm talking about)



This also shows what I talk about on the planter, the Greene Bros. and Hall Bros. would more often than not use big soft finger joints. I like that.

Notice on Jared's chair, the lines of the bridle joint are fairly soft, and they excentuate the joint. I like those soft, excentuated joints, they get me to want to touch the wood...that would be good on a chair arm, since my hands are already there!;)

Never mind me, I'm just ramblin...
 
This evening I got an e-mail from Jared Rusten, the designer of the chairs in this thread. He included a link to a photo of one him (I think it's him) sitting on the backrest of the lounge version of the chair. His feet are off the floor so the chair's backrest is supporting his entire weight. I would think that would dispel any concerns about the strength of the joinery. I've asked him for permission to post the photo. If he gives it to me, I'll post it in this thread.
 
Jared Rusten gave me permission to post this photo of a chair similar to the one I drew. This one is the lounge version which has a fixed back. The dining/desk chair version is built with the back mounted on dowels so that it can pivot a bit for comfort.

cantileveredbackmomentoftruth.jpg
 
Cool shot there Dave, thanks for sharing.

I really like Jared Rustens design and had no doubt that it was fully functional.

I pretty much agree with Alan DuBoffs opinions regarding the exposed joinery.

Notice on Jared's chair, the lines of the bridle joint are fairly soft, and they excentuate the joint. I like those soft, excentuated joints, they get me to want to touch the wood...that would be good on a chair arm, since my hands are already there!;)

I like the bridal joints but I don't care so much for the sliding dovetails. They are no doubt strong but it looks a bit alarming or disconcerting, like a bad shear accident waiting to happen maybe...

This design would also be great with hidden joinery (pinned mortise and tenon) and would then appeal to someone like Nancy Laird.

Great modern design with lots of options.

Super job modeling it as well! :thumb:
 
Wow, that last picture is pretty impressive. I wasn't too convinced about the quality of the design until I saw that one. Very inspiring.

Thanks for posting this Dave.
 
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