couple questions

larry merlau

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Delton, Michigan
in this dream shop adventure,, i have been told that 3 phaze power is available for no extra charge. so if it were you folks and this was a small shop but had this chance would it be a good idea to get it? i know that reasonable tools are out there in 3 phaze. the next question is if you had a choice between a mono slab and pole construction which would you opt for and why? the slab would be stick built construcktion. thanks for the advice
 
Dunno about your pole and slab problems, but the 3 phase............ HECK yeah!

All kinds of older GOOD machines that you can get on the cheap, as the average homeowner cannot use them without a phase converter :thumb:

Cheers!
 
3 phase for sure Larry, especially at no charge.

Now I'll refrain from the second question cause I think we talked about this one over a couple of brewski's.:huh:
 
3-phase yup!.....and i`d go with a slab....even though concrete is harder on feet it`s much easier to keep up! i`d also vote for stick built especially up north.....for ease of insulating and wiring....plus down the road if you ever decide to sell a stick framed building on a good slab will be a faster seller that a polebarn structure....tod
 
Slab sucks on the feet and legs, but while you are building it, you could put in a subfloor of wood, and you could run the electrical under the floor to the middle of the shop...? :dunno:
 
Larry.....stick built or pole barn.....that's one of the decisions I wrestled with when I built my shop. In the end, I decided on stick built. IMHO it's easier to do the electical and insulation and I'm not so sure it's not cheaper because of that in the long run. 3-phase........take it! There's nothing stopping one from using a single phase........or 3 phase once it's installed!
 
No extra charge on 3-phase.
Take it. Main box will cost a little more though.

I'd do a slab, stick built.

Highly suggest a wood floor if its in the budget.
 
Third option on the construction for here in Michigan and other northern locations. Look into using SIPS. A little more expensive to put up but the increased effectiveness of the insulation is significant.

OK, I know, what does SIPS stand for. Honestly I don't remember but it is essentially a a styrofoam like substance laminated between two sheets of plywood that goes up quickly like a jigsaw puzzle. No sticks or poles. You can use trusses or SIPS for the roof as well.

If you do a Google search on SIPS, you will find lots of additional information.
 
Pole barns are about the same cost, but the pole barns can be up in less then a week once the poles are set. This one of those topics that can go either way. I would go with stick or SIPS. Strucaul Insulated Panels.
 
Hey Larry! :wave: Sitting here watching the snow come down this morning. Supposed to get upwards of 9 inches. We really had a short spring and about 5 days of summer. Oh, well. :dunno:

Back to the question at hand. Slab with two foot foundation walls. Stick framing on top of that. Why? you ask. :huh: If you remember I did that in the shed that houses my tractor, it's implements and many other goodies which I've deemed I cannot live without. Having that concrete wall has saved what would have been many repairs to drywall or whatever other material used for the lower portion of shop walls.:thumb:

John.jpg

The above pic shows the two foot foundation walls. I used 8' two by's and have 10' ceilings.

You had best get going with that shop. The first weekend in Septober is not that far away. :D

That's my $1.398 cents worth of useless drivel.

Karl
 
Karl, who's that dapper dude in the pic?

Packers and John Deere.....don't get any better than that.


and I hope Larry ain't drivin no tractors in his new woodworking shop.
 
SIP's

does anyone have a cost comparison? and with just 1/2 osb on the walls and styrofoam inside,, how would you anchor anythng to it on the walls that needed to be strudy??/ i wanted wood floors steve but i am ot sure how the cost and funds are gonna wash out in that. karl what i dont have dine whan you get here you can help finish up i will have that space ready for the lathe you offered:)
 
SIPS....Larry we were involved once in the building of a home using SIPS....notice I said once?

If they are the same panels as I got involved in some 8 years ago, here are the "challenges" ahead of you.

Since the panels are filled with styrofoam it presents a "challenge" in wiring. Since the panels are full of styrofoam it presents a "challenge" for window and door headers, sills, king studs, etc.

You will place a 2x plate around the perimeter of the building and set these panels over that plate...do the same for the top plate/tie plate.

Maybe things have changed since we used them and maybe they aren't the same...if so I don't know. If they are and you are up to the "challenge"....best of luck.
 
SIPS....Larry we were involved once in the building of a home using SIPS....notice I said once?

If they are the same panels as I got involved in some 8 years ago, here are the "challenges" ahead of you.

nuff said boss:eek: dont need no moe troubles got nuff with the other half :D , thanks fer the inp[ut mr ash alias ,bossman ask your resident sparky guy what he thinks on the 3phaze if you havnt already...
 
nuff said boss:eek: dont need no moe troubles got nuff with the other half :D , thanks fer the inp[ut mr ash alias ,bossman ask your resident sparky guy what he thinks on the 3phaze if you havnt already...

Note, I said "challenges" not troubles....

I"ve asked Sparky about 3 phase for myself and got a favorable response...if I HAD it available to me (free) but it might be a question best asked by you to him over a cold beverage of choice.
 
Note, I said "challenges" not troubles....

I"ve asked Sparky about 3 phase for myself and got a favorable response...if I HAD it available to me (free) but it might be a question best asked by you to him over a cold beverage of choice.

spoken like a tru father:D wanting nothing but the most for his offspring:) and seeun as how he is young he will need you as a chaprone huh???
 
spoken like a tru father:D wanting nothing but the most for his offspring:) and seeun as how he is young he will need you as a chaprone huh???

I think I'm getting the drift of what you are saying/asking. Yeah Larry, I'll be there to chaperone you, watch you take those first shaky, faltering steps....falling and bumping your head, bruising your ego....:rofl:
 
does anyone have a cost comparison? and with just 1/2 osb on the walls and styrofoam inside,, how would you anchor anything to it on the walls that needed to be sturdy?

Larry
I'm not a builder, and have never built with SIPs. However, I do find the concept very interesting and would look at it very closely, if I was building a house or shop.

Here are some of the benefits that I've heard about:
- no thermal bridging at all. Therefore, improved insulation.
- the improved insulation means a more even temperature throughout the inside
- improved insulation means cheaper to heat/cool
- construction is quicker, so you get "dried in" much faster.
- The walls are flatter - easier to install interior cabinetry, easier to fit things to the walls

- they do cost more up front, but you are supposed to make that back in cheaper heating/cooling costs.
- if you do a SIP roof you WILL need to hire a crane.

Here's a company I've found that has a bunch of videos on their website that show how a sip wall goes up: Thermapan in Fort Erie - installation videos -- other videos

Taunton sells a book on building with SIPs which I've read, it's pretty complete.

The one thing, which Steve Ash touched on, that I still don't fully get, is how electrical is handled. The SIPs have small channels pre-cut in the foam for running the wiring. So I know you need to have the electrical planned out well in advance, since you need to drill the holes through the floor-plate (to connect up to those pre-drilled channels) BEFORE you install the SIPs. From watching the videos and reading the books, it seems that you just need to plan differently and proceed a bit differently. But I also then think I would like to find a builder who has already built a few of these, so they've got all these things worked out.

Oh yeah, you asked about cabinets... I forget. There is no video on that, but I think the book discussed it. Remind me and I'll try to look it up tonight (I've got the book at home) For kitchens I think they mention that you could just fir out a 2x2 or 2x3 wall -- this makes it a lot easier to hide all the wiring and plumbing that goes in kitchen. But I don't remember if it was necessary to fir out wall to hold the cabinets, or if the walls were okay.
As a unit, the walls are certainly strong enough -- they are structural insulating panels, so they're built to hold a roof or even a second floor. But a cabinet would put on a point load, where you drill through the inner wall, and I don't remember what they said about that.

Hope this is some help,
...art

ETA: Googled some more and found another video repository of SIP info. I watched the "long version" video at the top of this page and it gives a good summary of things, and towards the end gives a quick view of how electrical can work, and how cabinets can be mounted.
 
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