guess I have (explitive deleted) myself

I have a ground source Water Furnace. In many ways I love it. Very economical to operate. But seems to need maintenance about once a year and that cost negates any operation savings. Oh, well.
But, that is not the problem. In my area we have only two heat/ac companies that work on Water Furnaces. One has a very bad practice of sending guys out who are not qualified to do the repair job. They will look at the unit and say "yep, it has a problem. But I have to make calls, we will send someone else later." A couple days later another guy comes and repeats the same statement. They once did this three times to me before I blew my stack. Then they sent a guy who was quailfied and did a proper repair job. Kicker is they billed me for all four service calls. This is their normal modus operandi. Crooks, pure and simple, IHMO.
The other company has been a pleasure to deal with. Well.....kinda, mostly. Their techs are very qualified and friendly. Work is excellent. Problem is they often do not send a bill for about a year and by then it is difficult to recall if the billing is accurate. Or they send a bill after a few months and follow up about a year later with more charges. Last time they did that it really ticked me off. After some discussions with them I filed a complaint with the Attorney General and learned they have multiple complaints against them for this practice.
So, I quit one company and alienated the other.
Problem is, where do I go for service next time I need it?

I see two possibilities.

First possibility

Tell the company that you choose to work to a written quote - signed and agreed by you and the company. Make copies. Tell company "A" that you refuse to pay for 3-4 service calls. One service call - and repair is to be on the bill. For company "B" - same deal - documented and signed by both parties.

With both, or either - clearly state your dissatisfaction - in writing. On either or both companies - draft a letter of dissatisfaction. Reread the letter many times. Be diplomatic - don't do BOLD RED UNDERLINED letter. Just don't do that. Tell your story BRIEFLY - short and concise. Include your name and address - and phone number - and email.

Find the highest "decision maker" - in the local company. The owner is BEST - if you can get there. Send the letter.

AFTER that - if you do not get satisfaction - go higher. Find the HIGHEST "decision maker" in the organization of the manufacturer of the equipment - send the letter.

Often times it is best to make a personal phone call rather than a letter. I like the letter approach because the issue is documented. Spoken words are easily forgotten.

Filing complaints on Angies List and service magic is somewhat effective. At least it warns others.

Product reviews are also somewhat effective.

This is what our society is about - manufacturers of products do NOT want their names and products receiving bad reviews and bad reports all over the place.

State these actions to these companies.

Not to the receptionist (customer service) - but - to the owner.
The receptionist (customer service) can never help you - that is why they are there.
The receptionist (customer service) can only relay the message.
The receptionist (customer service) is by design a wall between the customer and the owner - so that the owner does not need to deal with the customer - and does not really need to satisfy the situation.

You REALLY - NEED - to bypass the (customer service)

The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I make no secret about making noise. I will quite often clearly state that I am intentionally making loud noises in order to effect a desired result. I find that I can more often than not - get to the root faster - when I tell people than I DEMAND a result. I will often times look like a jerk - but - hey - we cannot always - be a nice guy.


Second possibility
Is there common service that YOU can do.

If the annual maintenance is filters or cleanings or things of the sort - can YOU - do it?

Are the repairs something YOU can do.

Can you hang over the service guys and watch them and ask them about what they do and how they do it? Don't be shy about that. I know - the home owner is pestering the service tech. YEAH - SO -----. It's YOUR money. You are the one being mistreated. I would NOT be embarrassed about pestering the service tech. It keeps them honest.

The MORE you know about what they are doing the better off you will be.

Knowledge is power.

I have a ground source heat pump as well, actually two of them, and have had several issues. I'm fairly well versed in how they work at this point and do a lot of the work myself on it. I am getting ready to replace a unit and most of my issues were pump and loop related. The original installed was horrible about repairing what I belive was a faulty loop. He never properly diagnosed it, nor did he repair it well. I have one guy locally that I trust who has helped me get the system sorted and reliable for the past three years. I know of a few things that I consider requirements for a reliable system. the original installed refused to discuss them or install them, but it has made the difference.

I have some names of people I trust for opinions and advice that I would be happy to share. I belive it is good technology, but the details matter.

What issues are you having?
Mine system has only needed regular servicing for flow problems. far too many pump failures to list and installed never admitted a problem, though I always managed to get it covered under warranty, of course umps never lasted more than a year until I had this new guy look, and repair it. Three years solid now with zero issues until the coil failed (17 years old, no big surprise.) That is on main unit Shop unit has run flawlessly forever other than a pump failure here and there but it's a shared loop so same causation.

Hope I can help.

The manufacturer, if it is water furnace, will be of ZERO help. They will not deal with the end user. Period. I have lost all respect for them as far as help goes. the installing company was no better, but they only deal in water furnace products for their geo line.

Do you have open or closed loop? How old is the system? What kind of failures?

Nick Reubel at terra source geothermal has been very helpful and straight with me. http://www.geothermalheaters.com/
The people at these sites here have given me useful info as well.
http://www.geo-flo.com
http://www.flowcenterproducts.com/accessories.php
If you have a closed loop I would recommend some sort of expansion tank and a way to monitor or maintain loop pressure. loop expansion can cause a pressure drop and cavitate the pumps which is a common failure mode.

I don't do work for anyone without everything understood and on paper. No one does work for me without the same. No professional needs to go off and sit in the dark to figure out how much they should charge you after all is said and done. They know what they did, they know what unexpected parts may have been required, they can present you a bill before leaving the premises.

I am both cursed and spoiled by living in the suburbs of a large metropolitan area. Any outfit that doesn't provide good service can't get any repeat work. With us all living in a fairly mature internet age, poor performance is easily researched. Only the better outfits survive but, that doesn't mean there aren't any smart enough to do poor work and get away with it ;-) Your two outfits are the only game in town and they know it. Unfortunately, they both are also below decent standards. Any trade schools in the area? There are programs where decent folks who want to learn to work with their hands will do work at a reduced rate as part of their learning experience. One of my favorites is to find a retired guy who used to be good and still wants to make a little money.

I miss the guy that used to work on my old Chevy. I'd go over for a brake job, he would jack the car up and give it a looking over, walk into his garage for one trip to the tool box, come back with everything he needed and do the brakes while we shot the breeze. One more trip back into the garage to take the tools to the parts washer, clean up and drop the spoil in the trash. Pay in cash and I'm outta there. Man, I miss those guys . . . .

Is there a Sears or a BORG that services your area? This may result in the same sub-contracted bozos doing the work BUT, you deal with a business for all the details.

You don't want sears or a borg working on your geo unit. They dont have the experience. They are pretty specialized systems and require a good tech.

Frank,

I am sure that you know how many service vendors are available in your area, but I found this listing from the Arkansas Energy Organization, whoever they are. Maybe they have a business you were not aware of.


View attachment AR Venders GHP Contacts.pdf

Tom Wilkinson said:

You don't want sears or a borg working on your geo unit. They dont have the experience. They are pretty specialized systems and require a good tech.

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Sears - in my area - doesn't do any of their own service work. They contract it out to other companies in the area. Most of the subs are pretty good. Home Depot does the same thing. In fact, many of HD's subs are the same ones Sears uses.

Jim DeLaney said:

Sears - in my area - doesn't do any of their own service work. They contract it out to other companies in the area. Most of the subs are pretty good. Home Depot does the same thing. In fact, many of HD's subs are the same ones Sears uses.

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The odds of you calling sears, and getting a tech that knows how to work on a ground source heat pump is slim. to get a guy that actually knows what he is doing and has the right equipment parts rather readily available is even smaller.

I have one of these systems and even the companies that install and service that have their techs, and their TECHS. Some random tech with a contract with sears is gonna be of no real help if you are truly having issues.

Leo, I am a pretty accomplished hand at getting the attention of company decision makers. And, I have professionally written reviews for many years. Problem really is these guys don't care if they lost a customer. Only two in area qualified on this equipment, they can tell a customer to go scratch if they want.
The repairs needed have been the electronics. I need two Boy Scouts and an instruction manual to change flashlight batteries. I'm hanging by the tender parts here.

Frank Fusco said:

Leo, I am a pretty accomplished hand at getting the attention of company decision makers. And, I have professionally written reviews for many years. Problem really is these guys don't care if they lost a customer. Only two in area qualified on this equipment, they can tell a customer to go scratch if they want.
The repairs needed have been the electronics. I need two Boy Scouts and an instruction manual to change flashlight batteries. I'm hanging by the tender parts here.

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I'm pretty surprised that its electronics. Mine have been rock solid. What has the failure mode been? What kind of equipment? Is is water furnace brand? How old? Premier 2?

Tom Wilkinson said:

I'm pretty surprised that its electronics. Mine have been rock solid. What has the failure mode been? What kind of equipment? Is is water furnace brand? How old? Premier 2?

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Tom, it is a 16 year old unit, Water Furnace brand. Premier AT series. Lights come on, I call fix-it guys. That is all I know. Very helpless feeling having to trust them. This is a retirement area and, no doubt, a lot of old folks get ripped for unnecessary repairs all the time.

Tom Wilkinson said:

You don't want sears or a borg working on your geo unit. They dont have the experience. They are pretty specialized systems and require a good tech.

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Thanks for the correction Tom. I apologize for speaking out of ignorance on these systems. I just assumed that like out here, Sears and the BORGs contracted out to qualified contractors. ;-)

Frank Fusco said:

Tom, it is a 16 year old unit, Water Furnace brand. Premier AT series. Lights come on, I call fix-it guys. That is all I know. Very helpless feeling having to trust them. This is a retirement area and, no doubt, a lot of old folks get ripped for unnecessary repairs all the time.

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I understand that feeling. I have pretty well learned to maintain and diagnose them myself at this point but at least have one guy I trust. I like the technology and the system, but it does have to be right, and the techs need to know what they are doing. Much more so than a conventional system.