I need to apologize

Roy Millsaps

Member
Messages
399
Location
St. Mary's, Georgia
I need to apologize to some members here, first I don't mean in any form or other about the word Pine, an I want to explain to you why I don't use it. I've been doing wood working off an on for the past 35 years an I did use Pine in the beginning until I met a few other wood workers overseas. They pulled me off the side an explain to me this statement, ( If you are going to make something nice, make it with a statement, use quality an do it right the first time ) . My problem wasn't my abilities it was the wood I used. Pine is great to use to practice with an for structural things. But when it comes to making something really nice that is going to stand out make it stand out with the right woods.
Over the past 16 years I have been playing that forward , if you come to my shop to visit an you made something nice out of the P-word I would send you home with some nice hardwoods to help you come out of your comfort zone. If you come an do a class you will only use hard woods.
If I made you mad I'M SORRY BUT I WILL ALWAYS TRY TO ENCOURGE YOU TO USE BETTER WOODS !!!! That's just me, if you want me to leave the forum here just let me know. If not I will not change I will always will encourage you to come out of your comfort zone

Roy Millsaps
 
no worries roy! all wood is good wood, i've made a small side table of brazilian cherry for a friend of mine, and a very nice tea stained, cedar lined chest for my sister that turned out very nicely, and a cradle for some friends in pine that turned out very well.
 

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I don't think that hardwoods are necessarily better woods, by any means. Pine is called for sometimes if one is recreating something historic, or sometimes in restoring old homes. (in my area, bungelow kitchens, were originally painted, pine) That isn't structural, by code, if not attached. (separate pieces of furniture)
Even Balsa wood has a place (gliders, and such).
That doesn't even mention that cost has ALWAYS been a factor (in the history of workbenches, beech may have been popular in one area, due to cost and strength).
 
Roy, No worries at all. FWW just has some rules that are unique to our site.

The rule against using 'hieroglyphics' or misc characters was meant to keep folks from using commonly used substitutions for swearing.

This was a pretty unique case, since it was the first time anybody has ever used hieros to obfuscate a relatively common word, like 'pine'.

But, as they say, Rules is rules, and everyone was just doing their best to make sure the rules were followed.

I do have to admit, after seeing all the fantastic work you do, I can see why that might be a dirty word in your shop!

Please don't hold it against us.

Sincerely,

Brent
 
While we may pine for nicer woods,
Sometimes one wonders just what fir.

We shall not walnut in our haste,
Nor use what yew need not.

For every tree sure has a use,
Scuse me while I avoid this knot.

:rolleyes: :D

More seriously while I agree that pine in painful to do some kind of work in, it sure does have it's place at times and all pine was not created equal. I short of look at this in the same light as the absolutists argument against end grain. Should you avoid it in some cases? Sure! But the knowing of the when, where and why is the rub. There are other woods I'd avoid for some uses just as assiduously where they are just great for other uses. Another great example of work in a pine is the gorgeous translucent Norfolk island pine turnings. We saw some of those in a couple of galleries last time we were in Maui and man they were a revelation (no pictures allowed in the gallery of course).
 
Well there is pine and then there is Pine, most pine I see in the DIY shops here in Japan is really poor quality that is then jigsaw puzzled together to make a larger board. What I really dislike about pine is that most anyone who tries to stain it has no idea and they use a pigment stain and it gets all blotchy, and looks really bad, I see samples of the stain on wood at the DIY shops and they use plain pine, it is blotchy and look really bad, if they used some sanding sealer or shellac on it first it would look much better. Good old growth straight grained clear pine can be very beautiful, but you don't see that much anymore.

Thank you for the Clarification of what you meant Roy, now lets all get back to woodworking! :thumb:
 
Roy where i grew up I would agree that pine was a dirty word. LOL Annual growth as a result of Northern Hemisphere pine being transplanted to a different climate resulted in pine with 10 cm or more annual rings. The result was absolutely terrible wood. BUt its purpose was more for pulp and paper and yeah they used it for rafters, have no idea how they kept it straight for that purpose.

Today said Pine trees, planted at the headwaters of rivers by original immigrants are being removed as an pest under a project "working for water" sponsored by the UN. Pines soak up an incredible amount of water each day and basically Pine forests in South Africa contributed to lack of water downstream for all sorts of uses one of them being human drinking water. So yeah in some places its an alien species. LOL

Then one day as a youngster i needed a decent bed upon moving out of home and came across a woodworking plan that called for Oregon Pine (Douglas Fir) and i had to pay a small fortune for it given it was imported. When finished it produced a lovely color. The bed has been with me the whole time and even traveled over to Canada with me and recently i had to modify the bed and purchased some quarter sawn douglas fir locally. That wood was to die for. Expensive I thought, but beautiful in my opinion.

I also think for a woodworker starting out to make a workbench from pine 2x4 as i have done its not only cost effective but a quick economical way to get a decent bench top. Some day when time permits i would like to upgrade the top to a nice hardwood but for now with me abusing it by working on it with mechanical things that leave grease and oil on it , it would absolutely break my heart if it were decent hardwood. Thats one beauty of pine you can abuse it with no concern as to the cost. :rofl:

And sorry i did not have time at the time to post in your workbench thread a pic of my inlay on my workbench so i post one here for you now. I used bloodwood to cut out the Maple leaf and insert it on the benchtop. Worked ok for my first ever attempt, but to your point of the pine well cutting into the soft surface for inlay was not the most crisp edges even though i tried using sharp tools.

I did clad my bench in all sorts of hard wood some with a sentimental touch like the unseen in these images Walnut that came to me in Canada personally delivered by Larry Merlau of our forum. My bench would not have been complete with out that touch. The leg vice is a rip off of one Stu Ablett also a member created and inspired me to try out. and the end vice is a Canadian antique given to me by the first friend i made coming to Canada, it was his Dads workbench vice and he no longer had use for it. (yeah guess i am a bit of a sentimentalist:D focus more on the mental than sentiment :rofl:). And given I am rambling on those bench hooks you see are the best value for money i have come across in woodworking tools that work amazingly. (gramercy).



workbench inlay.jpgworkbench top.jpgworkbenchside.jpg
 
Roy - just stay.

Forums are a tough media sometimes.

There needs to be rules.

We don't like rules - but they do come in handy sometimes and they do keep things on an even keel.

Your work is spectacular and there are many people here that come here seeking wisdom, knowledge, inspiration, and to enhance our level of creativity.

There is NOTHNG in the rules that hinders that.

The only thing that hinders growth - is when people do not post.

Please do not hinder my growth by not posting

I love seeing what you do - and in your postings here I have been inspired in many ways.

If you like or do not like pine - That is a personal choice. For me - pine has it's place.

PLEASE KEEP POSTING - and please, just be patient with the rules - they don't really hurt - they are just a little annoying - but we need them.
 
......Then one day as a youngster i needed a decent bed upon moving out of home and came across a woodworking plan that called for Oregon Pine (Douglas Fir) and i had to pay a small fortune for it given it was imported. When finished it produced a lovely color. The bed has been with me the whole time and even traveled over to Canada with me and recently i had to modify the bed and purchased some quarter sawn douglas fir locally. That wood was to die for. Expensive I thought, but beautiful in my opinion........

Just to be perfectly clear here Rob, Douglas Fir is NOT Pine :D

They are of the same family, but of different Genus.

Douglas-Fir
Family: Pinaceae
Genus: Pseudotsuga


Pine
Family: Pinaceae
Genus: Pinus

The Southern Yellow Pine is also a different wood, it is very nice wood for lots of things, still Roy's point is well taken, step up to some nice hardwood, you will be rewarded!
 
...
Even Balsa wood has a place (gliders, and such).
....

Nit picking. Balsa is technically a hardwood, since (over simplifying) it has leaves rather than needles. Never mind that it is the softest wood I have ever seen.

But Bravo, Roy, for encouraging your students (and us) to use better wood. I have some early pieces made with Home Depot wood (and plywood) that took longer to make and probably cost more, by the time I spent all the effort and finishes trying to make cheap wood look like good wood. I would have been better off using good wood from the start, as I have for the last 20 or so years.

Now heresy from an infidel... my workbench is made from recycled 2x6 lumber with an MDF and plywood top. And it doesn't have any inlays other than patches for major dings.
 
No need to apologize; I thought it was funny! I use pine for practice purposes, and one day I am going to make a deal table like we used to have in England (deal is an English word for pine, and deal tables were everywhere.) I am aabout to turn a couple of spindles for an Early American cradle I am making, because the plans call for pine. All the same, for flatwork I usually use white oak.
 
Sometimes I look the look of pine for certain pieces, but it's also often a pain in the butt to work with....it's soft, gums up my blades, dents easily, breaks easily, and blotches up a stain something fierce.
 
:) Beautiful Inlay Rob an yes all the pine here is for paper mills an isn't worth a crap Douglas fir is a nice Pine but it is expensive I like Pondrasosa Pine to but expensive for use here. I started out with a pine bench an then to a granite one but lot of the people I learned from said it was time to build my own, so I did I have several benches in my shop another one I brought from overseas with me , made in Switzerland an I use it for all kinds of wood work also. I just don't have a pine one anymore :). I wish everyone on this forum could come over an have coffee, but later this month I'm off to Perry Georgia to hold 3 days of Demonstration's for College students an be a Judge for a turning club. Then I'm off to Scotland for a week to hold a class there at another school so I keep some what busy :eek: Besides all of that its the doctors :(
 
Roger I have family there an in Scotland an yes I know what you are talking about but mostly now they moved to Beech an walnut, I made one from Swiss Pear with Inlays so post some pictures when you are done with it :thumb:
 
What I really dislike about pine is that most anyone who tries to stain it has no idea and they use a pigment stain and it gets all blotchy, and looks really bad, I see samples of the stain on wood at the DIY shops and they use plain pine, it is blotchy and look really bad,
Don't blame the wood for bad prep and sloppy finish work.:thumb: Almost all wood will come out blotchy when not sanded properly before finishing. And when the finish is applied wrong (which is the case most of the time) it will come out blotchy.:thumb::rofl::rofl:
 
Since you all are pining over wood, you know the work I do and I've seen some extraordinary furniture from 1700's and 1800's that were made from pine. So I would not get so cought up in the type of wood used just the craftsman in making it.
 
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