How would you cnc a corner joint

Rob Keeble

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I have a question to ask

If you have two pieces of BB ply 3" wide say 5/8" thick and you want to cnc a corner 90 degree joint with some mechanical strength using only a staight cutter that leaves a .125" radius what type of joint would you cut that would not leave gaps in the joint.

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
I guess I'm struggling to picture what joinery you're describing ... so i'll go over the ones i can imagine...


So let's say a shelf style joint - for that, i'd just do a rabbet or dado - no concerns or round cutters in that situation.


If it's a mortise into one piece, like say a table leg and stretcher style joint, then I'd cut the mortise with what are called fillets in the corners. These are just little parts that the cutter extends past the actual square corner since it can't actually cut a square corner. This extra clearance allows something like a tenon with square corners to fit right into the mortise. While you said no gaps, this leaves very minimal gaps only in the corners and if you cut your tenons with enough of a shoulder, the gaps are completely concealed.



Now let's say something like a picture frame. here you can get creative and do some kind of fancy half-lap type joint with geometric shapes or something creative (think puzzle pieces, or old time wooden railroad track sections). These are pretty nifty.



Ok now let's talk what I think you might be thinking of ... a box type arrangement - where the two parts are mated at their ends like a drawer or box. If your CNC can machine the end of the board, you could cut some pretty nifty dovetail type joinery or box joints. But most machines can't. So let's go with what a "flat" machine could do ... box joints with those fillets above would definitely leave gaps. Fancy interlocking joints could be made up but it gets tricky going in 3D because one board lays flat and involves mostly Z-axis movements while the other board lays flat and involves mostly X/Y axis movement so the geometry would have to be drawn such that it allows for bit diameter (or strategic shallow rabbets that cover any fillets needed).

A simpler method, though, might just be a rabbet. That would be the simplest, no-gap, joinery method.
 
My bad thanks Jason your last version like a box or dovetail joint is the kind I am thinking of. I don't see how any mechanical joint can be cut in the two parts flat on xy axis only without gaps to accommodated the cutter radius.
 
I had planned to test doing standard dove tails on my cnc, but have some issues with the screw rods and alignment I need to work out. With that working, it would have been as simple as a clamping jig at the end where the head overhangs to cut them using a dovetail bit. Laying one side flat the other would be clamped on the end for the mating piece.

Similar to this, just wouldn't need the template.
portercable-4216-main-lg.jpg
 
Thanks all for the input, I found a process that works in the flat. It would require cutting fingers like one would have on a box joint but longer than normal and sanding off extended ends on both sides. Darren in this case it has to be flat. I like your idea Carol especially given it can be fine tuned to be a tight fit / Have done that on my table saw i call it Alan B joint from Texas, my way of remembering it.
 
Mack i am having a box made essentially like the four sides of a draw.
The 4 pieces are to be cut from sheet goods in this case BB plywood. It is intended that a company with a large cnc router which is only able to cut in the x y axis (straight router bit cutting at 90 degrees to the ply) will cut the pieces for me.
During this process of cutting out the individual pieces i want it to cut the edges of each piece where the joinery would be required. So as it stands their smallest router bit the use leaves a radius cut of 3mm. .125" .
Tradditional finger joints are square cut. If the fingers are cut at 90 degrees to the side (ie while lying flat on the table) the bottom corners of the fingers are rounded resulting in gaps when assembled.
The answer i have discovered requires that the finger is cut longer with a round end and when assembled the rounded bit sticking out is either sanded off or left as a feature depending on cosmetic need. Sorry i dont have picture.


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Rob - sorry for the correction but 3mm .118 - not .125.

Interesting question.

This is one that intrigues me - and on my list of things to try.

I am going to do some layout in solidworks - then on programming.

I should come up with something definitive this weekend.

Carols post nails it I think - but I wanna play with doves and fingers.

OK - I am up for the challange
 
Nah - no can do.

Only way is to stand the piece to gain access the the end grain.

If he is using 4-th axis and can swing the work up into position - then there is a possibility.

Other than that - the joint Carol pointed out is the only real solution that I currently see.

hmmmmmm ---- maybe a modified sliding dovetail - dado ?????

Can he flip the workpiece over and use a v-groove tool to create the tail on one piece - OR - just one dove groove to create a dove-dado joint

Maybe there are some possibilities.

I will keep looking.
 
That's how I saw it, Leo. One cutter, one pass per piece. Its only a machine driven by a computer that can only add '0's' and '1's'. Not like its a real woodworker, ya know.
 
In both of those links - I do not see close enough to see the fine details.

Rob - a 1/8 DIAMETER - cutter has a .06 RADIUS in the corner.
I clearly envisioned that process but with a bigger radius - .118 - not .06

I can smash a square corner into a .06 Rad corner with soft wood and you would think it's a sharp corner.
The pictures are not clear enough to get a REAL GOOD look at the detail.

Jason - The boards were not just laid flat - they were fixtured on angles. BTW - that is a gorgeous joint.
Looks like he also had the end piece standing on end.

Rob's question was to do it with the boards laying flat on the table.

I am still on Carols joint - without standing the board on end. If we can stand the boards on end - then full dovetails, blind doves, half blind doves can be done as well as finger joints.
 
I agree Leo the images dont get close in enough to see the corner detail.
I am going to make a template just for cutting say three fingers to have a couple to put together and see just how tight that joint would be. With bb ply the outer skin that ends up going into corner is relatively soft birch. So it may just do for what i want. May even leave the overhang in place.

Thanks for all the interest and discussion.
I checked and i have a 1/8 straight cut bit. Should not be too much work to do the experiment.

But on the other hand Carols suggestion has a load of merit when one considers length of cut which equals time equals cost. And throughput.

My new router table has the same joint on its sides and its a great mechanical joint. I cut these on my table saw with the use of my dado blade.

Thanks for participating all, now i am comfortable that there is no miracle finger style joint cutting technique out there for my circumstances.

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