"Small" house - Impressions, opinions, thoughts - all welcome

Rennie Heuer

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The LOML has been watching a lot of TV regarding tiny houses (defined as under 500 sf) for the past year or so. We even stayed in one last week as a trial run just to see if it felt too claustrophobic.
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We both agree that the current home of 1200 sf is only about 50% utilized by the two of us and the yard and pool maintenance is breaking the bank. For instance, when you amortize the cost of winter covers (every 10 years), summer covers (every 3 years), liners (every 10 years), chemicals, and electricity it costs close to $125 per month every month just to have the pool. Electric and gas here run me $250 per month combined.In addition, the shop is the garage so we can never park our cars out of the elements.

We're looking, just looking at this point, at a severe downsizing - to about 500 sf with a 200 sf loft area. The bedroom and bath would be main floor, just storage and a place for my computer in the loft (Jan's knees would never allow for a loft sleeping space). There would be enough open floor area in the loft for an air mattress should we have to entertain an occasional overnight guest. I've seen a few plans that have an attached 3 car garage (yes, I know, the garage would be larger than the house) with side entry meaning it can be extended to about 32' allowing 1 bay 12 x 32 for shop area and a place along the back wall for benches and storage. One bedroom, one bath, kitchen, and a great room. Vaulted ceilings in the great room are a must so it does not feel small. This is one of the plans that caught my eye though it would need to be modified to include a loft.
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There are many manufacturers of tiny homes. Almost all are either modular or park model trailers, hence all are built under HUD standards and inspections. This drives the cost way up, to about $150 per sf. That is nearly double the going new construction rate around here of $80 -$90 per sf. So, our plan is to purchase a lot outside of the city limit (easily done around here) where building restrictions are less, well, restricting and build over a crawlspace. We anticipate a reduction in property tax, insurance and utilities as well as a 40% reduction in monthly mortgage payments. That translate to a lot of freedom and ability to travel more.

So, anyone out there have any experience with tiny houses? Anyone care to offer guidance? Tell me I'm crazy? Brilliant? You won't hurt my feelings, promise. I welcome all comments!
 
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Some additional thoughts based on points raised by a friend here who sent me a PM on this:

All good points!
We have three hospitals right here in Nampa, eight in the entire valley. Moving out of the city limits would still be only 15 minutes to the nearest hospital or Walmart! Well and septic might be a consideration if we buy an unimproved lot, but they are not prohibitively expensive, about $15,000 complete. We would definitely build with an eye to zero maintenance on the exterior - cement shakes for siding, standing seam steel roof, vinyl clad windows and door frames. Resale is a concern, but not a big one. We do not expect to ever move again unless it is to the nursing home. As for the lot, remember we are surrounded by mountains. There are a lot of places where a nice mountain view is still available.

Lastly, we don't get many visitors. I've been out here now for 21 years and only twice have I been visited by family from back east. Not really worth maintaining a guest room for that. An easier route would be to have a parking spot for an RV and a list of nice motels in the area.
 
I have a solution; fill the pool in and plant a garden. Partition off the unused rooms in the house and setup a finishing area and additional lumber storage.

Problem solved.
 
We considered filling in the pool, but only to make the house more attractive to buyers. There is only a single 48" gate for access to the yard. No place where we could take out a section of fence or any other method to allow access to a bobcat or front loader. Therefore, it would take about 280 full wheelbarrows of fill to fill in the hole, plus dozens of wheelbarrows of debris gong the other way. Labor, labor, labor. Cost prohibitive at best. I'm afraid we are stuck with the pool and, if we do not sell next year, we will have to spring for $3500-$4000 for a new liner a year or two later.

Moving scares me a little, though I've done it more times than I would like to admit. However, building a new shop - well that excites me!
 
Your taste for living tiny may not be extensive enough. Do a whole month. Stay for laundry cycles, grocery shopping for more than a week and where do you store the stuff. I agree that 12 sqft and a pool are over the top. Less than 500 sqft may be moving the pendulum too far in the other direction. I had an 800 square foot house with a loft in Strawberry. Perfect. A 3 car garage on the property would have been even better. Now I live in a 100 sqft motorhome. Not enough for a single person. When the weather is crappy, even I get claustrophobic.

I am building a house that is maybe ~800 sqft living area over an equally sized lower level than will house the shop, a bathroom, and a small office. There will be separation for dirty tools (mechanical) and woodworking tools. There will also be enough room for undisturbed finishing. I am also considering a root cellar and rain water storage. I will still need an outdoor shed for yard tools and such. I have been doodling this plan for a year now.

I hope I finally have the entire list of what the county requires. You might stop by your county's planning/building department and the health department and collect all you will need to know about wells, septic systems (beyond what it will cost) outbuildings, minimum requirements. Example: I need two car parking outside of the set-backs even though I only wanted a one car garage for the car. Since the house will take nearly every square foot of the building envelope, I lost 400 square feet to parking issues. I wanted a one bedroom house and the county requires two. And the septic system is sized for a 3 bdrm 2 bath house whether that's what I am building or not. The septic and leach fields have its own set backs and easements.

Now my lot is small by any standards around here so it is a puzzle and you likely will not have the same kind if issues. I am suggesting you find out exactly what kind of issues you WILL have. There will be some. Assume nothing. Get it in writing. My county has an awesome website for this sort of thing. I now have a book! And an awesome civil engineer. This county is interested in making smaller lots and houses work. In spite of water shortages, the rumbling earth, and lack of space, people keep coming. Fortunately my lot is an aberration in terms of size in a neighborhood of acre plus lots. I won't feel so claustrophobic. But I do have to fit it without looking a fat sausage in a small pan.

I'm with you, Rennie, in principle. Take your plan and walk through living in it. Take yourselves through all the scenarios. You come home from shopping. Where does everything go? Storage is usually the first thing that is inadequate. Its why rental storage spaces and backyard sheds are so popular. You take down the Christmas decorations. Where are they to be stored until next year? Where do you put the outdoor things (BBQ, lawn furniture, etc.) during the winter? Think through a whole year, month by month, and ask those kind of questions. Think about house and yard maintenance. Driveway & parking.

The building process begins with a plot map. Where is everything to go on your lot? House, garage, septic, storage, out buildings, etc. If the lot has a grade, then there are cuts to deal with and drainage. Right now it is paper and pencil or computer. easy enough to change things and decide which are deal breakers. BTW, cost per foot goes up when building smaller because there are so many things that have a flat cost (water meters, as an example), that are not dependent on size. The basic permit fee with is various and sundry taxes is not lowered much around here based on house/lot size. Nor or the resulting property taxes when everything is done.

Get answers now. Besides, its kind of fun! And live in the tiny home for a month. You will learn tons. Maybe something between 500-900 sqft will work much better and be the economical place you are hoping for.
 
this will sound a bit odd, but that's just me. instead of filling in the pool, drain it, use it for a foundation, and build a new shop over it. you can use the space below for a finishing area, and you have a handy drain, just in case.... :whistling:
 
Moving scares me a little, though I've done it more times than I would like to admit. However, building a new shop - well that excites me!

Now hold on a minute . . . you never said move into a 500 sq ft house and build a 1200 sq ft shop. That's a different story ;-) Around here, for the cost of that liner I could find someone to fill in that pool. LOML tried to get me to buy a house with a pool when I first moved into the area. Fortunately I had lived with a pool in the past and found the only way to enjoy one was to have a pool service which was only part of the cost of taking a dip now and then. As I get older a spa and a sauna are much higher on the list than a pool ;-)
 
More, but I am about to run out the door. If Jan's knees don t like stairs now they won't like them in the future any better. Cleaning upstairs and cleaning a loft is a hassle. Just saying.

I plan on no or very few steps. And the bathroom will be sized for the future jacuzzi. Think what you will need when mobility becomes an issue, since you plan to live there until the nursing home. Often people have to move to the nursing home because their home cannot accommodate wheels chairs, walkers, ramps, etc. Plan space for them now and you can delay the expensive move to the nursing home. Nothing less than 3-0 doors. Anywhere. Landscaped grades to the front door instead of steps. Of off the back deck.

Gotta run, but you have me thinking.
 
Now hold on a minute . . . you never said move into a 500 sq ft house and build a 1200 sq ft shop. That's a different story ;-) Around here, for the cost of that liner I could find someone to fill in that pool.
I'm still looking into ways to fill in the pool. There is a company in Boise that uses conveyors to move material. Will be checking with them next week. Now, let's not get carried away! The shop will not be THAT big! :eek: The main area would be closer to 400 sf with benches and lumber storage along the back wall of the garage. I must control my urges......

this will sound a bit odd, but that's just me. instead of filling in the pool, drain it, use it for a foundation, and build a new shop over it. you can use the space below for a finishing area, and you have a handy drain, just in case.... :whistling:
Can't, plan and simple. I am on a corner lot and my current building is up against three of the four setbacks. The pool is only 36" from the property line in the back. Just no way to build anything over that hole. Besides, the golal is to live on less $$$, not take out a third mortgage! :rofl:

Your taste for living tiny may not be extensive enough. Do a whole month. Stay for laundry cycles, grocery shopping for more than a week and where do you store the stuff. I agree that 12 sqft and a pool are over the top. Less than 500 sqft may be moving the pendulum too far in the other direction. I had an 800 square foot house with a loft in Strawberry. Perfect. A 3 car garage on the property would have been even better. Now I live in a 100 sqft motorhome. Not enough for a single person. When the weather is crappy, even I get claustrophobic.

I am building a house that is maybe ~800 sqft living area over an equally sized lower level than will house the shop, a bathroom, and a small office. ........

Carol, thanks! Although I abbreviated your post for economy of space, this is very much the kind of thinking I was looking for (though everyone has offered something of value) Lots of sound advice in your post - I should look around for a rental that would force us to face some of those hidden realities. I am working with a builder friend who is asking around at the building department. He can also give me good estimates on materials and labor. I intend to do much of it myself - cabinet installs, flooring, paint, etc. He can also figure in the savings attached to those.

Like I said, we're just looking at the possibility right not. There is a lot there that is attactive, much more in lifestyle changes that need to be considered.

Keep the good thoughts coming everyone!
 
More, but I am about to run out the door. If Jan's knees don t like stairs now they won't like them in the future any better. Cleaning upstairs and cleaning a loft is a hassle. Just saying.

I plan on no or very few steps. And the bathroom will be sized for the future jacuzzi. Think what you will need when mobility becomes an issue, since you plan to live there until the nursing home. Often people have to move to the nursing home because their home cannot accommodate wheels chairs, walkers, ramps, etc. Plan space for them now and you can delay the expensive move to the nursing home. Nothing less than 3-0 doors. Anywhere. Landscaped grades to the front door instead of steps. Of off the back deck.

Gotta run, but you have me thinking.

Already gave consideration to the accessibility issues - all hardwood floors - no carpet, 3-0 doors and straight shots into rooms, no 90 degree turns. framing for future grab handles at the tub and toilet and room to spin around. Grading is a good point, have to remember that. As for the loft, that will be my domain, Jan need not worry about it.
 
I agree with Carol and Glenn.
Do all the math on the whole economics of this tiny house concept keeping in mind that you been watching a tv show. They make it look romatic and appealing until the two of you are both falling over each other in each space.

I also think our generation need to realize we all have a expiry date. Before that date we going to have to move from how we live now to a lot less both in way of upkeep and cost. We going to have to accept we the generation thats forecast to be alive longer than any other in human history.

Your house right now would command a good market price given what i have seen you add and revamp over the years and we know the quality of that work and finish.

Evaluate staying in it versus selling out and doing what Carol is doing but without a pool.
Pool halves your market as not everyone wants a pool. Around me heck people buy a house like they did mine, pay for the accessorie building or pool and tear it out ( my shop got taken down and tossed much to my sadness) . houses here fly off the shelf in days of listing (dont ask makes no sense to me) . that may not be the case out your way. But evaluate through a decent agent the market.
Then, consider if you purchased land and built a new house and sized it to suit tiny house logic just what the marketability and capital return would be when it comes time to step down to lets say assisted or retirement home living.
I would bet not that i am a gambling man, that economically you would be better off even paying premium to fill the pool and stay put.

The other aspect that is to be considered is how Jan feels about your current place. For her there may be unspoken feelings about the house having been the home of another woman. This may be a motivating element in moving and the tiny concept making it perceived affordable to do.

As is said there is more ways than one to skin the cat. Think of the long term though.

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Rob,

Always a fount of inspiration and knowledge!

We're very early in the process and there is much number crunching in our future. You are spot on regarding Jan's feelings about the house, though she has been an absolute trooper and never mentions it. She knows that Linda not only lived here, she passed away in this house as well. So, in some ways, a move would be cathartic for us both.

We have been watching our own movements for a couple of months now and I can tell you that we use less than 700 sf of our own home. We almost never eat at the table, the spare room is only visited when I am on my computer, and our living room is what we walk through to get to the kitchen. We could easily adapt to a great room where we ate at a breakfast bar overlooking the kitchen. We currently spend most of our waking hours in our TV room, about 110 sf. So, I think we could do it, but I'm not ready to take the plunge today.

It is very attractive to have a home that can be thoroughly cleaned from one end to the other in a matter of a couple of hours. I'd also be looking at minimal maintenance outside, both structure and landscaping. Just tired of the work and want to do other things - HOWEVER I'm not an apartment person, never have been. Condos around here aren't a great option as there would be restrictions on my shop and parking outside. 55 and over communities are few and far between and garner a 15% premium for the same exact home in a regular subdivision. There are also those that are populated with double wides on rented land. Not for me either.

I agree with Carol and Glenn.
Do all the math on the whole economics of this tiny house concept keeping in mind that you been watching a tv show. They make it look romatic and appealing until the two of you are both falling over each other in each space.

I also think our generation need to realize we all have a expiry date. Before that date we going to have to move from how we live now to a lot less both in way of upkeep and cost. We going to have to accept we the generation thats forecast to be alive longer than any other in human history.

Your house right now would command a good market price given what i have seen you add and revamp over the years and we know the quality of that work and finish.

Evaluate staying in it versus selling out and doing what Carol is doing but without a pool.
Pool halves your market as not everyone wants a pool. Around me heck people buy a house like they did mine, pay for the accessorie building or pool and tear it out ( my shop got taken down and tossed much to my sadness) . houses here fly off the shelf in days of listing (dont ask makes no sense to me) . that may not be the case out your way. But evaluate through a decent agent the market.
Then, consider if you purchased land and built a new house and sized it to suit tiny house logic just what the marketability and capital return would be when it comes time to step down to lets say assisted or retirement home living.
I would bet not that i am a gambling man, that economically you would be better off even paying premium to fill the pool and stay put.

The other aspect that is to be considered is how Jan feels about your current place. For her there may be unspoken feelings about the house having been the home of another woman. This may be a motivating element in moving and the tiny concept making it perceived affordable to do.

As is said there is more ways than one to skin the cat. Think of the long term though.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
You have to consider what the resale value of a 500 sq ft house would be. The 200 sf loft wouldn't appeal to older folks or people with a young child. Maybe a single person ?? The only use of the loft I could see would be storage. Like Rob said try the tiny house out for at least a few weeks. I love my wife to death but if we were shoulder to shoulder all day with no personal space you would probably hear about us on the national news :eek:
 
I am also of the idea that the "tiny house" might not be the best long term solution that being said i can also see you desire to make a change to cut expenses etc. I terms of getting rid of the pool do you have a gate to the back yard, how wide is it ? I know that Bob cat makes a very compact skid steer that is only 34.5 " wide and it is designed to get through a gate. our local true value has one in their rental fleet I thought about renting when i move in here to ude for doing the landscaping.
http://www.bobcat.com/publicadmin/viewArticle.html?id=10782
you might check around that would make getting the pool out of the yard easier.
 
We see all the smiling faces on TV of people who live in tiny houses, but wonder how happy they are 10 years down the road. Now, having said that, the first house LOML and I bought was 1134sf, 2/2, with a carport. Throw out the second bedroom and bath, trim the family room a tad and it would be in the 750sf class. We could have lived in that place forever. We built a nice deck and added a hot tub. If not for a job transfer, we'd still be there.
 
I think tiny houses are really cool.

You gotta be a minimalist though.

If you are like me ad like to have stuff - tiny (less than 500) may not be a great idea.

My house is about 1200 and I have a cellar.

My shop is almost 700 and I have a 300 upstairs

I also have a about 200 shed space.

It's all filled up.

I really would like to down size - but the hobbies would have to go. I'm not ready for that.

I heat with firewood - got rid of the pool - garden weeds get mowed.

I am finding a way - jut to keep the hobbies.
 
One more off the wall idea. Spend your month in the tiny house and during the month, rent the smallest wheelchair you fit into and wheel around your tiny house in it. See how that feels. You may never be in a wheel chair but if it comes to that,it is better and cheaper to stay in your own familiar space than to add moving to an already chaotic situation. A few critically available square feet may make all the difference.

I too will have straight shots through doorways. Avoiding hallways also. Pocket door into the bathroom. One of my best friends in seminary was in a wheel chair. Had been for years. I learned a lot as we got out and about.

Back to the loft. You can manage it now, but it will become wasted space in a few years. Joints don't get better with age. Why build space today that becomes unusable in a short time? Keep it all on one floor.

Good luck with your research. As I think of things, I'll let you know.
 
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