My experience at Lee Valley yesterday

Rob Keeble

Member
Messages
12,633
Location
GTA Ontario Canada
Well despite my feelings regarding carrying of stock, i had to again pop in to my local store as u can note from my storage box thread i needed a bracket.
I also decided to buy another lv spokeshave one with the sole rounded.

After i had printed my order and waited to be served, i proceeded to make a suggestion to the member of staff that was helping me, that the items in display cabinets should not be sold so that one can see the item in the cabinet.
This came about because i had placed on my list for this associate a list of bracketry that was not on display but in stock (they usually have a sample of all their hardware fixed to boards for one to view. None of the bed fasteners were on display in the hardware section.
So this now meant the person had to pick 3 different items i wanted to view then delete 2 from my list and someone then had to take these all the way back to their respective bins. From a time and motion point of view i can see why it takes a while to get to the counter if this is what you going to put your staff through.
Then i mentioned that on walking the ilses of tool cabinets (note the one with spokeshaves in did not have the shave i was after yet it was in stock (limited quantities it said on the computer) i had glancingly counted over 100 locations where part numbers were displayed yet item was not in stock.
I told the person i could understand they made more money from gadgets and gimmick trinkets however was wondering if they were fazing out tools.

I suggested that if that was the case we woodworkers can get tools from Lie Nielson
https://www.lie-nielsen.com
as they also carry fine woodworking tools.

The response i got surprised the heck out of me.
The person said you tell head office we have tried over and over and they wont listen. Then while paying this person said all i can suggest is boycott the store.

Now i should add that the store is now going to be open 7 days a week like the rest of our retail and the home depot close by this store.

My point is whats the point if you not going to keep stock at the store.

Those of you that know me will know i have been a huge loyal fan of Lee Valleys and promoted them here whenever possible.
But when staff who are actually mature and very able customer service orientated people are driven to such frustration by corporation idiots that will not hear what front line staff have to say one has to start thinking that this loyalty has been misplaced.

For a while now i have noticed a difference in the vibe among counter staff. I have put it down to changing times or pressures of perhaps poor sales or reduced profit shares (in case you don't know all staff at LV share in profit to what extent i don't know).

I must say i don't look forward to my visits to the store like i used to. I guess in future i will shop online and use the prepaid return service and wait for free shipping.

Wonder how long before the stores disappear. :(

And before you say write to xyz, sorry i am not doing that. I would hope they internet savvy enough to do a browse each day of woodworking forums to see my post.
If they not going to listen to competent staff why listen to me.
 
Hi Rob,

Sorry to read of your bad experience. I'd like to respond with a few comments, but would also like to have someone senior follow up with you directly, if you'd permit that. I can be contacted directly at rlee@leevalley.com.

In the past two years, we have added more high-end core woodworking tools than we have in recent memory. Bad Axe, Grammercy, Erie Toolworks, Benchcrafted, and of course a constant stream of Veritas product. We have discontinued very little. There have been significant additions in other high quality lines - Wera, Festool, and many other technical products from clothing to lighting.

We stock about 18,500 items in every store. We cannot physically display every item....which is one reason we support our efforts with print, and digital resources. To put that in perspective, we carry more items in the smallest of our stores than you would find in a typical IKEA store.

Yes, at the same time, over the past couple of years, we have also broadened our line to include more product outside of the the core woodworking area. Woodworking is not a growth market. If we wish to stay in business, we have to appeal to a broader range of the population... And we are doing this, while staying consistent with our core values, and corporate vision.

Clearly, there is a perception issue somewhere at the store you visited, and it is something we will follow up on. We can always improve, and welcome the feedback.

Sincerely,

Rob Lee
 
Rob Lee, thanks so much for weighing in here. I think one of Rob K's points was directed at stock levels at the store. He saw many places in the display cabinets where an item would normally be displayed that were empty. He suggested that display items not be sold. This would seem to be an issue of inventory control, either at the local level or maybe even corporate, if they are that hands on. When all you have left of an item is the display model, it's time to order more...maybe even past time to order more. I guess from a corporate viewpoint you have to decide whether it's worth it to have so much inventory tied up in display at the local stores, but it's frustrating for a consumer interested in spending fairly big money on a new tool to go to a store and see the display empty and the item not in stock.
 
Mr. Lee, good to see you are here and responding. However, I note only seven posts in almost ten years membership. Please spend more time with us. As a one time retail store owner I know problems cannot be solved unless you know about them. The people here are knowledgable, intelligent and candid. I suggest, for you, a valuable resource.
 
Mr. Lee, good to see you are here and responding. However, I note only seven posts in almost ten years membership. Please spend more time with us. As a one time retail store owner I know problems cannot be solved unless you know about them. The people here are knowledgable, intelligent and candid. I suggest, for you, a valuable resource.

I have noticed that Mr. Lee generally responds quickly to any discussion of Lee Valley tools, especially to any problems, as evidenced by his many responses over at Woodnet and SMC. I believe that his lack of traffic here is directly related to our minimal discussion of hand tools in our forum. Basically his lack of participation reflects more on this forum's main focus which is not necessarily woodworking. Please don't read that as a complaint on my part. I enjoy participating here, but I don't do it for any woodworking knowledge, but because of the friends that I have here. Let's be honest, if you were really a hand tool newbie looking for knowledge you would be hanging out over at SMC, Woodnet or Wood Central. But then you would be missing out on how to brew a good beer and some boerewors. :)
 
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I believe that his lack of traffic here is directly related to our minimal discussion of hand tools in our forum. Basically his lack of participation reflects more on this forum's main focus which is not necessarily woodworking.

Bingo. I would like to see a lot more woodworking discussions here . . . Oh, and pictures, more pictures.

That being said, I do not turn and don't watch the wood turning sub-forums so I am the first to admit that my focus is specific and does not take the whole community into account :). I do recall joking a few years back that we should change the name of the forum to Family WoodTurning :D:D:D

As to Rob Lee's response; kudos to him. Operating a brick and mortar store is something many retailers have just walked away from.
 
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Hi Ted,

One of the difficulties with a very large range, is that while we may have stock within the organization ( and we do for more than 95% of items at any given time), it may not be at a specific store. We have literally thousands of items which we would sell fewer than 10 of in a twelve month period. With 17 warehouses to stock, one can easily see how even one in each location is more than a typical year's sales....when someone wants it....it's Difficult to say no.

We put significant resources into systems that accurately telegraph what stock is in which location. We are further rolling out a major website availability upgrade in about two weeks time, that have both mail order and store stock status on every page.

Having extensive catalogues creates an expectation of universal availability, year 'round. Just not possible in our industry. We buy from about 2000 vendors, many of whom are small businesses, with lead times than can exceed 12 months. Some, we may only buy from every other year. It is truly a very difficult supply chain to manage.

Cheers,

Rob
 
Hi Frank,

I am always willing to participate in discussion, or answer questions, privately, or on boards. Being mindful that I represent a business, I rarely initiate discussion - and often wait for an "invitation". In the case of this thread, another member here have me a poke....which I always appreciate!

Cheers,

Rob
(Who is away on vacation.....)
 
Well I am sure both Robs are pretty savvy business wise. But as a customer nothing is more irritating than to see the item sitting there and have the store(any store) refuse to sell it to me.. So I don't see the problem with selling display items, now when stock arrives the display version should be put back out.

One thing I see that some seem to fail at is they base orders on sales numbers. They do this without taking into consideration the low initial stock numbers, which mean sales numbers can't be high. I am sure that often is a result of poor inventory control software rather than an actual desire to operate that way. .

Some items are out of stock 90 percent of the time at some businesses.. or at least when you are wanting an item that is what it seems like..
 
I have to admit my sympathy level is somewhat adjudicated by my jealousy at the convenience of having a LV store nearby :rolleyes: I'm sure it would be absolutely disastrous to my wallet though so its likely just as well.
 
Hi Rob

Thanks for stopping by and responding to my points.
I hear your points re number of items in stock etc.

My response remains why should i go to the store if there is no stock for me as a woodworker.
Woodworking may not be a growth market but sales will be restricted if one cannot buy what one wishes when one desires. Big aspect of any retail sales is impulse buy. Your stock approach allows reflection and hence the opportunity to think twice as to whether one really needs that new tool.
I can tell you i purchased a spokeshave while at the store during my visit the other day.
I had looked online at home before going to the store and come to the conclusion that if there were none in stock when i put my order in then it would be the last time i bother.
When i saw the one of the range i wanted was not present in the display case, i almost did not bother putting it on my order list figuring if it was not in the cabinet it was not in stock.
I am pretty sure there is nothing unique about my thinking, so i ask how many other store customers or even for that matter online customers have not bothered to even inquire. I was lucky it was in stock, so why not fill the cabinet ?

I consider myself a pretty savvy internet shopper and given your free shipping campaigns if there is no stock available at the stores relevant to woodworking then i would argue why would i go to the store.
I argue that the role of the store has changed, it primarily becomes a place i can either ship to for pick up or more importantly get to see and touch the real deal before placing my order which if i had to have ordered online I would also not have had instantly, so i dont see that the need is actual sale stock but most definitely sample stock on hand. I could then do what i have done before, order for pickup at store.
I have even accepted in the past items that are of low value and poor sale quantity being place on back order just to get my hand on the item.
I accept that the task you face is nothing short of difficult and challenging but just like any other retailer its the nature of the beast.
I strongly disagree that my experience is merely one of perception.
Earlier in the year i stood in line observing students. From some local college with a tool list in hand where LV planes were stipulated , not being able to walk out the store with their items.
When you have this kind of written in spec of your tools and your store is not preparing for those sales each year ahead of time i cannot agree that stock out is perception only.
I recall starting out as a school kid in a hardware store in South Africa at age 15.
I distinctly remember a similar kind of event occurring each December in this store. In the country at the time Builders closed for annual summer holidays. It was a time of year they got their bonuses. Being what we here call "Pros" these builders would come into the store and buy new high end imported America. Trowels. We always has stock of all that they needed. This store by the way , had a gardening section, durable goods, cut custom glass, provided propane refills and all the tanks and camping accessories to go with it, construction material from cement to window frames and lumber and 12 varieties of bird seed and pigeon food. Yeah it was a real hardware store.
I see students walking into your store buying planes at age 21 as just the same as my builders were back in the day. Your store should have had kits of the list ready. Not be expecting them to accept backorders. They were not ordering some highly specialized plane. It was run of the mill standard fare.
I say you have done an excellent job of staffing your store with pleasant competent people a key differentiator in my opinion what i argue is empower them, they in the front line and no computer system or corporate metric can replace them. If not copy home depot and just put the stock out there and let us consumers walk the Ilse and put what we want in our baskets. (Not that i would like to see your store go there).
I maintain, you cannot sell if you don't have stock.
And if we only follow metrics as to what sells and is in demand heck why then not become like Canadian tire and sell Nescafe coffee and toilet paper. And here as an immigrant i thought Canadian tire was a autoparts store.
I go further to add, consider this point.
You mention how many small businesses you have listed for new tool listings. I would argue its pretty hard for Lv to offer a value add in this case when these small businesses sell direct online at similar pricing. Therefore the very aspect of value add i perceive you offering by listing them is having stock available at the store. If not why would i not just buy from them online.
Thanks for participating and responding i am sorry but you have not presented a compelling reason why i would want to go to the store when there is no stock at the store level for me to see the real deal.


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