Keezer Build

Looking awesome!!

One other thing I might suggest (and I'm sure you don't want to hear this one but here it goes). I might leave it open for a week or so to make sure all of the poly has finished outgassing before you close it up and put beer in it. Not sure if it'll be a problem but give it a whiff and if you can smell it... Well.. Yup.
 
Licking my chops can taste the ale in my mind already. Nice job.
Hey aint there room here for a micro to do the control on temp and fan and provide some wireless feedback as to keezer err / beer status :)

Any way to measure how much is left in a keg without guessing by weight or opening it to check?

Way back in time machine here Allen made a shots cabinet/ unit for his son who added some lighting if i recall correctly. Any chance of some additional decoration on that front her

Thinking aloud may be nice opportunity to add a bit of signage in gold leaf aka like the publican signs. "Darrens Kansas Ale and Tap house". Lol.
Glad to hear nose is not holding u up.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
 
Looking awesome!!

One other thing I might suggest (and I'm sure you don't want to hear this one but here it goes). I might leave it open for a week or so to make sure all of the poly has finished outgassing before you close it up and put beer in it. Not sure if it'll be a problem but give it a whiff and if you can smell it... Well.. Yup.

Well, I left it to bake in the oven (the shop yesterday) all day, was about 120 degrees in there, not sure there would be much off gas left. I didn't smell much this morning, then again, I'm not smelling much right now. :D

Licking my chops can taste the ale in my mind already. Nice job.
Hey aint there room here for a micro to do the control on temp and fan and provide some wireless feedback as to keezer err / beer status :)

Any way to measure how much is left in a keg without guessing by weight or opening it to check?

Way back in time machine here Allen made a shots cabinet/ unit for his son who added some lighting if i recall correctly. Any chance of some additional decoration on that front her

Thinking aloud may be nice opportunity to add a bit of signage in gold leaf aka like the publican signs. "Darrens Kansas Ale and Tap house". Lol.
Glad to hear nose is not holding u up.

Of course Rob, none of my projects would be complete without some electronic overkill. :) Actually there are flow meters that one can buy to try and keep track of usage, here is one project: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=343018 and another that is a bit more refined: https://kegbot.org/

There are several flow meters available, here's a basic diagram of using one with arduino: http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php/topic,8548.0.html

I do plan to print some vinyl graphics to adorn the keezer, just need to figure out what I want to do yet.
 
Any way to measure how much is left in a keg without guessing by weight or opening it to check?

Well Rob, if you come up with something let us know :D

Actually there are three things I've seen done.

Most commercial systems tie into the pos and just count sold pours. If your servers do a good job and don't spill to much beer that's fairly accurate, but from what I've seen that can be a big if.

The other commercial setup is to use a flow meter. Basically a tiny little water wheel that the beer flows past and counts the revolutions. Supposed to work fairly well, but I have some reservations about the lifespan and ease of cleaning.

The last way is to build an electronic scale and keep track of the weight delta between where you are and the empty keg. The problem with this is that basically all of the force meters I've found acquire some memory the longer the weight is on them (and thus starts under weighting). If you were finishing the keg in a few hours out even days this seems feasible but given some that last months the error curves from the spec sheets I've found didn't look real good.

So if you come up with a better way or find a force sensor that can still accurately weight something that's been sitting on it for a couple of months, would be interested to hear it :D
 
Darren those are great links. Goes to show just about anything we can think of doing these days is taken care of.

Think i am going to try out one of those flow meters, Would like to have a more accurate measure on the water use on my travel trailer. The current level gauge consists of screws driven into the tank at different levels. Very course measurement. It wont change the amount of water though . :rofl: Empty is still empty and full is full. But its not at all linear yet tank is rectangle all round. I always thought the point of graduated gauges was to indicate you were getting to that stage not so close to empty that you can do nothing about running out. :eek:

Ryan making a washable flow meter would be a great task for someone with a 3D printer and time to spare.

Any chance those float type gauges used on propane tanks would work or be adaptable to a keg?
 
I had the keezer running for a couple of days earlier this week and doing some temperature measurements it was 50* in the top of the keezer, about 8* in the bottom, so I ended up ordering a little 110v muffin fan to circulate the air inside. Brown delivered it today and I felt well enough this evening to get it installed. It might be a little oversized, but is a good quality ball bearing fan, so it should hold up.
2015-07-15 21.20.01.jpg

We also made a trip the to local brew shop, my wife bought me a couple more fermenting buckets and another 5 lb. tank to use in the keezer for my birthday.
2015-07-15 21.20.10.jpg

I also snuck in another present this week, which brown brought today. ;)
2015-07-15 18.18.47.jpg
 
The extra tank can be an event saver, smart move (and happy B day :thumb: and congrats on the shiny new mill).

Now you've got me wondering about the temp in my keezer... hmm... I've never actually measured it..
  • Beer pours at 42F (as per the instant read) - I had to pour a fresh glass, for science! :p
  • Top of the keezer is at 52F (ok that's maybe a bit high)
  • Bottom is a 35.5
  • Probe for controller is about 6" down
  • controller is set at 41F nominal (johnson controls analog and around 18 years old so not very accurate in theory, in practice it appears to be delivering beer at the right temp :thumb:)

Your top/bottom delta seems really high in comparison, I wonder if you:
  • have an air leak?
  • would get more temperature stabilization with kegs in it?

No idea really, but it might be interesting to just throw some kegs in it (empty? full of water?) and repeat the experiment without the fan to see what happens.

I'm also a bit surprised given the top of keezer temp for me that the beer is pouring as cold as it is... veddy intellesting... this will take some thought.
 
I use a fan in the keezer because I've got some trays up at the top that hold my yeast collection, and RC Plane batteries, as well as some bottled beers. I find keeping the air moving helps a little bit with condensation as well. Amazing what these things get used for!
 
....Your top/bottom delta seems really high in comparison, I wonder if you:
  • have an air leak?
  • would get more temperature stabilization with kegs in it?....

Would the type of insulation have any affect on the delta? 3/4 inch styrofoam insulation will typically produce an R-Value of around R-3.8. Maybe another type of insulation would have a better R value and reduce the delta?
 
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Would the type of insulation have any affect on the delta? 3/4 inch styrofoam insulation will typically produce an R-Value of around R-3.8. Maybe another type of insulation would have a better R value and reduce the delta?

If anything Darrens setup should be a somewhat better than mine. I have a 5.5" collar around the top of mine that's just a cut down cedar 2x6 with no insulation on the inside of it. I did caulk the seams really well and the lid fits nice and tight, but still he has insulation and I don't... Of course I have more wood in the game, but I'd think the insulation he has would outweigh that (not doing the math, not even sure what the math is).

Brent, a most excellent point on the condensation - that certainly bears some consideration! Its certainly an ongoing battle, I have a bag of the home depot desiccant stuff in there (about 2 lbs worth) which I take out and put in the oven every 6 months or so. It helps but there is still a fair bit of condensation on the walls, and it freezes on there/evaporates off (some) on the cool/not cool cycles.
 
We shall see how it does. As Ryan suggested in an earlier post, I did find there was quite a bit of off-gas from the poly, so it's been turned off and airing out for a few days now with the lid open. It started from about 90 degrees at 9:00 pm and is down to about 60 (11:15 pm), target is 40, then we'll see if it's cycling. When I had it running earlier this week, it wasn't cycling at all.

The ring does feel a little cooler than the lid, so it could be I will need to get a higher R value foam put in, but seem to recall a lot of folks don't even insulate theirs. I think the Styrofoam is only 1.6 or 1.9 R value. I've checked the ring and lid for leaks and they seem to be tightly sealed.
 
We shall see how it does. As Ryan suggested in an earlier post, I did find there was quite a bit of off-gas from the poly, so it's been turned off and airing out for a few days now with the lid open.

Glad your nose is back :D :thumb:

I gave mine almost two weeks, but that was due to life more than intentions.

The ring does feel a little cooler than the lid, so it could be I will need to get a higher R value foam put in, but seem to recall a lot of folks don't even insulate theirs. I think the Styrofoam is only 1.6 or 1.9 R value. I've checked the ring and lid for leaks and they seem to be tightly sealed.

Yup no insulation here, but there is ~1.75" of wood for the collar and another ~7/8" trim strip on the outside of that. Poking the back of the collar (which doesn't have a trim strip) with the instant read thermometer shows 81F just like the ambient in the house... but I'm not sure of the heat transfer off of the wood either so that might not be a useful test.
 
The freezer was cycled off this morning and read 40.3 degrees, which is about where I had it set at, but it was only 73 degrees outside. It will be back up in the 90's the next few days, so will see how much it is cycling.
 
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I bet those wood rings contribute to a lot of the condensation. The R value of the wood isn't that much, so some better closed cell foam insulation board on the inside of the wood might help with that. Can't hurt and might make cooling more efficient.
 
Posting this here for all you keezer builders wanting to route spillage from your drip tray via a pipe to some sort of slop bucket or drain.

I have been looking for a "through floor drain outlet" to put in my rv in a few places to avert a future plumbing or water mishap when i am not around. Dont want a shower drain (too large a diameter and bug opening) found this on kegworks
http://www.kegworks.com/drain-assembly-for-drip-tray

But not in stock so carried on looking. Terminology is key here if one is looking as i am to adapt something from another use to my use.


Well the industry that uses similar type things in a much smaller size diameter than plumbers is boating world. They call it "Thru hull" .

I eventually found one that i think for the moment would do the job
http://timage.eu/site/skin-fittings/1036-flat-through_hull_606.html#/1_finish-brass/size-1_2_hose

The smallest size diameter is 1/2" still too big for my preference but key for what i want is flat flush mount.

I am also now thinking of a small diameter piece of brass tube with the one edge rounded out to make it flush mount.

Just sharing what has been a bit of a search and I thought dealing with spills etc in keezer territory would have similar issues finding appropriate fittings. Some are domed which means a layer of liquid sitting in tray or whatever until level passes brim. No good for my desires.

On my trailer had they put a drain in the rear as a safety like they do on the pop outs then drama i have would have been averted.
 
Filed into the memory banks. A lot of time the marine stuff is the way to go alright, often made a lot better than the comparable rv parts it seems and they have all sorts of nifty bits to choose from.

Practically I don't pour enough for the drip tray to be a real problem, mine is actually a stainless drywall mud tray held in place by hard drive magnets that were put under the facade. It goes into the dishwasher every so often (usually when I fill a growler and have some foam over). Commercially it's a whole different story.
 
Cool, thanks Rob. My freezer had a similar built in drain with the cap on the front of the unit. The drip pan also has a soldered on drain, which I have yet to connect to a drain hose.

Darren
 
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