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Table Saw Problem UPDATE!!

Paul Douglass

Paul Douglass

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S E Washington State
Have a question. I have a Steel City uni-type table saw. Very similar to a Delta, the people that started Steel City tools were ex-Delta people.

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The blade on the saw is slowly creeping to the right. As you can see in the picture below, this was a zero clearance insert. Over time a gap has formed to the left of the blade. Something appears to be moving. Or am I nuts??

Notice the white arrows pointing on the insert. This is happening on my other inserts also.

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Is that the trunnion we are seeing through the gap, or is the washer on the wrong side of the blade? Something isn't right, but it does seem strange that the movement seems parallel. If the top were loose would the movement be so parallel?
 
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My guess is that the arbor shaft has shifted in the bearings. There should be either a locknut or a snap ring on the sheave (pulley) end of the shaft to keep it from shifting.
 
The gap does appear to be too large for this to be the issue but do you use both thin and regular kerf blades on the saw? Another possibility might be not returning the blade back to 90 degrees after making bevel cuts.
 
Are your cuts square ? Seems to me that if the blade is that far off getting a perfect perpendicular cut would be impossible and you would notice the wobble.

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No idea how to get rid of this thumbnail picture ??
 

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I'll see if I can answer some questions. It is a trunnion mounted saw. Do the trunnion mount to the table to or are there mounting for it separate to the table top. If they mount to the top they would move with the top, and this blade creep would not happen. I haven't had time to hunt for my owner manual which of course was not where I thought it was.

What you see in the picture is the plate the saw blade goes up against, then the washer and nut go on the other side of the blade.

The saw cuts square and true.

I have thin and regular thickness blades, I have separate zero clearance inserts for each, I have zero clearance inserts made for each. It is happening on both.

This has been going on for some time and because of it I check to see if my cuts are square often, They are, but something is still moving.

I have checked the bolts and such that I can get to easily, but never went to much trouble digging into it because I do not know what to look for. Guess it is time to try to figure it out.

Course Steel City is now out of business, don't even know it I can get parts if I need any.
 
Ted and Jim's point about it staying parallel being weird of well taken.

For most of these types of saws the trunnion and table are independently mounted to the cabinet hence my original guess that the top was slipping. It's still possible that it's slipping exactly parallel but that does seem rather unlikely.

Almost all of these types of saws are built more or less the same which is convenient because the layout of this and the delta and the griz 1023/690/691 and some eras of PM saws are all pretty similar and sometimes you can shoe horn parts between them, but I'd bet you just have something simple loose.

I think Jim's guess is a good one given the evidence at hand and would be a good thing to check anyway because if that's what's happening it could be a heck of a wreck in waiting. That'll mean tearing into most of the same guts I think, although you might be able to get into that area past the motor guard though so I'd try that first.

If you do have to pull the table watch for any little shims and track where they came from if there are any, makes reassembly a bit less painful. You'll have to realign it as well in that case which isn't hard but is slightly tedious.
 
That fact that it's moving and staying perfectly parallel makes me wonder if the arbor shaft or something internal is moving. My guess is that Jim's on the right track.

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Unlikely the arbor. Look to where it pivots for raising and lowering the blade, my guess is it's something there. An arbor would likely be failing and making noise, unless the bearings ride in a separate carrier and that's slipping as an assembly.
 
Never heard of that happening before (with the parallel movement). I think you will have to remove the top (paying careful attention to the shims as someone mentioned) and then start looking. If something shifted it should leave some evidence somewhere. It will be interesting to hear what you find.

PS, was looking at the exploded drawing that Rob linked. Does that look like there are 2 set screws (parts #242, and then part# 257) that may in some way keep the arbor in position (?)...might be worth checking.
 
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Removing the top is the best way to get a good look inside. Not that hard to do either. Loosen 4 bolts, and get some help removing the whole top, wings, and fence together. Note where there are any shims, and mark them so they can go back in the exact location. It really should boil down to just a couple of possible causes...either the whole trunnion assembly shifted to the side uniformly, or the Ny-Lok nut (#288) has loosened allowing the arbor (#279) to move, or something with the motor frame or gear bearing housing have slid. None of those scenarios are common that I know of, but I don't see any other possibilities....I think everything else is fixed in place. Does anyone else see other possible causes?

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Well I haven't got to look into this much, and I've decided to wait until I can get my brother-in-law to come and help. Not that he know any more than I do about table saws, but he is a great mechanic, pretty darn smart and can help lift the heavy table top.
 
Good move Paul, but in the meantime i would also avoid using it. If it has moved from left to right which it looks like it has, you dont want it to be doing more of that while you use it again and it ends up moving into cutting at that metal insert and having a chip of the blade fly off at you.

BTW you can take the side tables off on their own and it lowers the weight. I have done that on my lesser cabinet saw several times in order to make it a weight i can do on my own. Although my saw is in the contractor cabinet saw category, it is not like the Delta versions and has trunions mounted to the cabinet so one can take the tables off and work on the mechanics, not that there is much in there to work on. LOL Its not exactly rocket science. I think there is more to a scroll saw than the table saw Sawstop versions excluded.

Be very interested to hear what you find though so please keep us posted if you don't mind.
 
UPDATE: This morning I took the saw apart removed the table. Took me about one minute to see what I think the problem was, First I saw that the key on the elevating bracket shaft was sticking out about 3/16". Looking closer it also looked like the elevating bracket was slipping on the shaft. I tool a deadblow hammer and tapped the bracket over about 1/4", tapped the key in. Put a socket on the bolt at the top of the bracket and I could turn it with just the socket, no handle on the socket. So I tightened it. Before trying to put the saw back together I will check all the other bolt I can get to to ensure they aren't loose. So it that really was the problem, I think I got off very lucky. Now if I can only get the table back on and everything squared up.....

 
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