MLCS has really gone downhill

Mark E Smith

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190
Location
Arkansas
Recently bought a MLCS #8357 Multi-sided glue joint router set, bird mouth bits. Don't know about the bits haven't use one yet, but was very disappointed in the box they sent it in, not up to their standards of the past. Bought from them in the past and their bits and display boxes were always first rate, not anymore.

If they can't even make a box right, gotta wonder about the bit quality, why would they think you can send a wood worker their bits in a crappy box like this and think it is ok. Not real sure if I will buy from them again, this bait and switch thing is very fraudulent in my book. Picture on the web site show this box set in a very nice what looks like maple stain finger jointed box...boy is that not even close to what I got...I got a completely unfinished raw cheap wood, not even sure what it is, maybe balsa. Corners are mitered complete with saw marks, on the inside they couldn't seem to match up the bit holes with the diagram, or evenly spaced them correctly...lol...then there is the depth issue where the plastic inserts were to big...this box is almost laughable, my 8 yr old nephew could make a better box with dull tools. Included a few pics, probably rework the box this weekend because if your gonna have a box for the bits, I like to take a little pride and have a nice one, may cut a few splines into the corners and pull the hardware try to level out the mating surfaces some, on the inside going to be harder, they glued in that block, gonna have to maybe put a thin cap on it then re-drill the holes in the correct spots, cap should cover the old holes so you can't see them, plus the cap will take up the space for the plastic sleeves, then a good stain and poly....whew...lots of work



IMG_20170819_102205.jpg
No spline joints here or finish

IMG_20170819_102303.jpg
Ya lets not smooth out that mating surface, lets just leave them saw marks there...lol...


IMG_20170819_102544.jpg IMG_20170819_101058.jpg IMG_20170819_101128.jpg

No need to space these out evenly, how stupid would that be, and them plastic sleeves, ya just leave them poking out, no one will notice that...geez
 
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I don't buy boxes from MLCS, just bits - a lot of them over the years. Did you send your photos to MLCS? Their CS folks might not be aware of the defects in the boxes and they won't know if you don't tell them. I've always had good service from MLCS.
 
The box doesn't cut the wood. Yes it's tacky and cheap but if the bit does a good job ok. Usually get the bits sealed in plastic wrap and then in cardboard. I've bought quite a few bits from them and have been satisfied. If you're unhappy with goods let them know. They may not be aware of situation.
David
 
Looks like the boxmaker's QC has slipped indeed. That said, as I see it the box is intended to protect the bits and keep them from hitting each other or rattling around in a drawer or box. Based on the pics, it looks like it's doing its intended job.

Personally, I think saying that MLCS "has really gone downhill" is a bit harsh. They don't make boxes. They make cutters. They buy the boxes in bulk and at the lowest price they can, in order to keep cutter prices as low as reasonably possible for their customers.

If the misaligned holes cause a problem, fill them and drill new ones. If the wood needs finish, hit it with a quick coat or two of your favorite stuff. Or use the new bits to make a cool custom box to store them in. ;)
 
Ya sent mlcs the photos, they said these are the new boxes and some story about the bit on the right being really big so they offset...lol...right right they all the same size basically. I did work on the box this weekend, cut in some walnut splines in the corner sanded the mating surface down flush and put some finish on it. Couldn't do anything to the inside, it is what it is, every thing is glued in, no way to get the sleeves out or flushed out, re-drill the holes was what I had in mind. I could cut them off put a thin cap on it and re-drill the holes without the sleeves or try and find some sleeves or just put it in a drawer and forget about it, probably going to do the later. Saying they are going hill might be harsh, but why would they do some thing like that to begin with, they have a quality product, why make it look cheap with a amateur looking box..If you go out and buy rollex watch, are you gonna put a five dollar plastic watch ban on it, after all it will serve the purpose, it will do the job, I don't think I would...just my take on this, I think mlcs is making a mistake with these box changes, I have the 15 piece router set and it is very nice box very well made nicely finish including a pictured logo, so I guess the quality of the box is dependent on the number of bits, must be because the three bits I got cost twice what the 15 bits set cost...I am so confused...lol...I just don't understand their thinking on this...
 
Well, Mark, I guess you have to decide whether you want to buy a pretty box or some reasonably priced bits. Certainly, there are merchants that have great looking boxes for their bits, but might the bits be the same as you get from MLCS???

Regardless of your experience with this box you got from MLCS, it ain't gonna make me NOT buy from them.
 
Well, If that's the story they sang to you I will say that's all hogwash. I would have said that to them too. From the pics it's clearly not the correct story as the size of the box would support the placement of the cutters in a symmetrical spaced pattern. Further proof is that you are making the corrective alterations with success.

Perception can send a company to it's grave. What are accomplishing is a perception of a poor quality product.

1) the box is shoddy, and dimensionally incorrect. The box is obviously flawed.

2) The customer service feedback is such that the company believes that the customer is too stupid to realize or believe anything about truth

3) The flaw was noticed by the company, but rather than fix the issue, a decision was made to push the flaw into the market.

YES - I agree - MAYBE - MCLS - at least WAS a decent quality - middle of the road - but, now, this perception, WILL, at least make me wonder.

Why would MCLS take this approach, unless, they are on their way down?

Maybe none of this is true - but - to me, now it makes me wonder?
This make me pelieve they are no better than the chinese.
Makes me think that maybe they are now in the chinese market.

All about perception.

I am going to sent this entire thread off to the highest person at MCLS that I can find contact information.
 
Thank you Leo, you understand what I am saying, was starting to think maybe I got a little crotchety in my old age and was being unreasonable. But I have seen this play out over and over again lately. These companies start making things cheaper and cheaper in an effort to please their shareholders forgetting what got the company to where they are ...and why the customers trust them, quality always suffers. This is exactly how it hit me, if quality on a box is that bad, where else are you saving money in pursuit of increase shareholder profit, whats next...maybe save some money on the bonding of carbide, maybe lets use cheaper metal...etc...where does it stop. Not saying any of that is happening, but it sure make me wonder. Not to mention, I said before the other 15 piece box set that is half the price of this one, still, as far as I know, has a very nice box, they didn't change that one, why would this one which is twice the cost be changed...just don't pass the smell test

I am not telling anyone you need to stop buying mlcs products, I am just letting people know my experience, you can make up your own mind. But for me I won't lye I have never gave a minutes thought about chucking up any mlcs bit until now, I tell you right or wrong, chucking up this latest batch of cutters in the back of my mind, is going to give me a little pause, because I have to wonder where else are they cutting cost, are the same factories that made their old cutters still making these newer one...don't know, and that is not good.
 
Well, Mark, I guess you have to decide whether you want to buy a pretty box or some reasonably priced bits. Certainly, there are merchants that have great looking boxes for their bits, but might the bits be the same as you get from MLCS???

Regardless of your experience with this box you got from MLCS, it ain't gonna make me NOT buy from them.

I understand what your saying Bill, but it's not about buying the box, I know, the cutters are what I am buying, but if your gonna provide a box, it needs to be a good one...Right or wrong I believe most people do judge a book by it's cover, and this box provides a bad perception of the product, then when some one calls them on it, they double down and defend it as normal...sorry that dog don't hunt
 
Mark, yeah I get it. I also agree with you.

I think sometimes we think that complaining is the wrong thing to do. It's NOT. In fact, I believe it is our obligation to complain. Customer complaints is opportunity for companies to listen and improve. I find it a really big problem when customer service blows smoke in our face when we do complain. This is what I see with your complaint to MLCS and the response you got. I do not believe that MLCS, as a company wants the customer service rep to respond to you in that way. If - the company - is going to support the Customer service rep - THEN - at that point, I will say that MLCS is all done. That is a SAD day in my book. On more that one occasion though I find that the decision makers in the company DO NOT agree with the response that you got. THAT - is why I want a higher up to hear this story. On the other hand - IF, we get smoke from a decision maker - MLCS is all done. Again - sad, because that means they don't care. Again,, I have a hard time believing that.

MLCS has a user forum. I think it will be worth while to join it and --- complain. I want MLCS to be better than that.
 
I would expect quality from these guys.

Back in 92 when I worked at Winchester I was looking at cutter grinding machines. The machine I would have bought was a Walters cutter grinding machine. In 1992 it was $300,000 Today, likely to be around $500 - 600 K

In 1998 at Johnson & Johnson we looked at Walters and Huffman. We were making hip replacement broaches. Those are the tools the doctors use in hip replacement surgery. Same sort of machines, just a slightly different application. Still grinding cutters. We ended up with Huffman. I visited the Huffman factory in South Carolina. Really interesting. The machines were in the $400,000 dollar range. My company bought one.

Anyway - these machines are all CNC high precision machines. This is the way the MCLS, CMT, AMANA, Whitside, Freud and others are manufactured. It's all high end quality stuff.

There are other machine brands out there, but mostly this is how they are made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug_TsKEnH1c

I don't expect the MLCS cutters to be any different.

This is all about perceptions
 
... I think sometimes we think that complaining is the wrong thing to do. It's NOT. In fact, I believe it is our obligation to complain. Customer complaints is opportunity for companies to listen and improve. ...

Exactly, Leo! Complaining on a forum like this doesn't accomplish anything. Communicating one's dissatisfaction directly to a merchant is what can work. If I don't get the response I think I should on first contact, I submit the issue again and copy the first response I get.


Im definitely following this thread... I buy bits from them. They arent the only router bit manufacturer.

No, they aren't the ONLY bit manufacturer, but they do provide bits that folks like me can afford to buy - and they're good bits!
 
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