Shapeoko 3 xxl has arrived

Rob Keeble

Member
Messages
12,633
Location
GTA Ontario Canada
Well i certainly got my spare time taken care of for a long time to come, now this kit arrived.

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Sorry for the poor pic, no light in that area of living room and its a dark overcast day here today.
Other evening i picked up some 2x4s to make a temp table for it.
Have not yet started in that project.

My first impressions were the kit exceeds my expectations.
You see photographs even videos but i say it again the online world gives you zero human feedback like the real deal.

I am once again amazed at the components of this kit.
The rails are heavy aluminum. Don't look that way in the images because its a photo but man hold one and you realize this is not a joke.
Same goes for the base plate metal work.

I would like to thank those of you that bought Shapeoko in the early days. You permitted this company (Carbide 3D) to evolve and evolve the offering they most definitely have.

I the latest unit comes with cable dragchain and the cables already inserted along with limit switches and beefy brackets for them.

I asked for a Makita router as part of the free thanksgiving deal and happy to say they obliged. Was only expecting the router motor but it came as a full trim router with base and edge routing accessory looks like a nice router to boot.

Now i got to get cracking on the table.

Did have a couple of bits missing but i presume they will sort that out once they process my email. Everything else was well packed to survive FedEx shipping to Canada.

The kit today comes with most of the unit assembled into sub assemblies so way different to the folks that first got on board.

Really looking forward to seeing what i can do with this unit.
If my brain lets me get to a competency level i am happy with then i will look at selling it and buying a unit like Leo has but i saw this as the training wheels we used to get on bicycles.lol

Will keep this post updated as to progress.
 
Glad to see they came through for you on the Makita. It sounds like they have come a long way on the assembly, will be curious just how long it takes you to get up and running. :lurk:
 
Rob, I'm sure you were born to run these CNC machines. I have a feeling you're going to really hit the ground running. Have fun with them!
 
Well there has been progress

Have my table done and in the house and for two tables put together man this thing is flat. I pulled off exactly what I wanted for the table for now.
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As you can see the Shapeoko build is taking place.

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The above images show a few items that I think are well cheesy and were this kit coming from China we would be using all sorts of derogatory comments to describe it.

Here are my views thus far on the engineering I see.

Yes this is a kit. But since my birth I had kits.
Electronic kits
Mechanic kits
Scale electric kits
Train sets which essentially are kits.

My lathe came as a kit I built.
My Bandsaw (made in America btw) came as a kit.
My jointer and on and on.

Here we have a $1699 kit a Grizzly bandsaw gets a rap for being Chinese blah blah about manuals etc yet retails for what in the $600 range. This kit came direct from manufacturer so they got the full margin not been sold through distribution.

Documentation on this kit is a mish mash.
I have seen posts complain about this.
They making changes (good) but not managing the documentation changes so customers can relate to which version they should use.
They need a quality system to aid in their evolution.
I had to rely on others in community to get to understand the companies intentions with regards to how the wiring was to be routed.
The images they have in their docs are terrible.

This btw this is version 3 not first rodeo. So I am sorry I cannot cut them slack.

Then to make use of double sided sticky pads to hold wires well if AVE on You Tube did a Boltr on this I can hear him now.

Then one image above shows a piece of 3m fancy double sided material that is to be used to hold down chain drag. Really , seriously???
I will tap some holes or 3D print a bracket I found on thingiverse to hold this chain drag in place.

Then to make use of pcb mount molex stick connectors soldered to wire to hook up to stepper motors is just amateur hour. Seriously. For a machine that is going to take a bunch of vibrations continuously every time it operates that is unacceptable to me. Yeah it’s a cheap solution but that’s it cheap not good engineering.

I cannot find it in myself to be hypocritical and just say atta boy because this kit came from California. If North America is to survive in making stuff we have to match the competition or leave it to them or outsource to them and stick to what we can do well. By version 3 with all the community collaboration and support they have had, Carbide 3D should be doing a better job by now.

So what is good. Well the extrusions are unbelievable. They amazingly precise accurate well finished straight and whoever drilled and tapped them did a real good job. My guess is these were definitely made in the USA in a plant that knows what they doing.

The assembly of the x, y, z carriages was very well done mine have not needed adjustment.
That I believe happens at Carbide.

A small fortune has been spent on the packaging keep in mind on the XXL it contains a lot of 3mm steel sheet and two large pieces of MDF .
It survived shipping but I would suggest they take a pre packed unit and toss it around like the shipping guys do. There were pieces of cardboard internally that did not stand up. But if one judges it by damage, I had no damage. But given in my past I shipped 40kg pay phones around the world from SA we did it back in the day at a much lower cost and better value for money.

The controller board looks to be well engineered although I followed its evolution so by now I would expect this to be the case.

Still though the cover supplied is questionable.
It’s got gapping holes that given again the environment this unit is going to operate in man that’s just not good engineering.

Looks to me like the Carbide guys have their heads into software evolving their version of software and I guess they rather ship the fully assembled unit they make than get the kit properly sorted out.

I fully buy the fact that it’s a kit. But even a kit needs proper engineering if its to be what is expected.

At this stage I have to say what could have been a couple of hour assembly is taking way longer than it should have for reasons above.

More as I progress.
 
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That looks like a nice stout table setup you have Rob. The kit looks nice, but I agree with you, the little details on a kit really can make it enjoyable or really frustrating. Of course it's reviews like yours that can help them work towards a better product, just sorry you have to be the guinea pig. ;)
 
Well she is werking .

But man what a frustrating journey this has been.

Just taking a break before I fix the final issue.

This is what I am fighting right now
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I have no idea why these guys chose to use these connectors on a mission critical item like homing switches.

First it homes then it just runs itself into the wall.

Well checked the switches and their alignment then got Linda my assistant to push switch while I checked on continuity.

Then put back connector and home once then pure vibration had it go off.

Pull cover off again (for umpteenth time) and checked connector and what u see is the actual wipe contact has folded on itself.

One other connector had the contact not secure itself so when you push it on the pin header it pushed out the housing.

This one the actual contact is flat.

This could be a great machine but they need some real engineers to work there and do design.

This is design by trial and error and hobbies engineering.

Sorry but I started my engineering career in 1980 and first thing I learnt back then was strain relief, and using bi furcated pins on something like this.

Even the auto industry has learnt over the years that cheap single sided wipe action connectors are not reliable at all.

Now you know why it’s a kit.

Not for non techie types that’s for sure.

As to their pre assembly, well I spare the details to say Carbide needs quality control is an understatement.

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I also added a tie bar beneath the controller board to prevent the same kind of thing happening to the motor connectors.

They just have not given this machines wiring sufficient thought or engineering and seem too obsessed with cost and numbers of parts to cater for the different models they market.

At some point Carbide might grow up and become a real engineering company and realize they need to do things properly even as a small company.

Think I should offer them my services I sure as heck ain’t going to pass on hard earned lessons to them for free to profit from.

As it stands now they have a limited market in my opinion.
If they want to grow it they will need to refine the product beyond the many issues I have experienced.

My first thoughts now are to solder the wire to the pin headers but that don’t make for easy replacement if this board has other issues.

Will ponder it a while.
 
Congrats Rob!

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Here is the actual contact I pulled from the housing.
You can see the difference. Black wire contact has collapsed on itself.
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Now... I could just bend this and it would work temporarily but it’s not a solution.
Instead I am going to take a drive and see what I can find at local electronics store.
Unfortunately the board cannot be accessed at the rear so desolating is not an option due to board being glued to aluminum I presume some sort of heat sinking arrangement.

Thanks Brent.
 
I've invested in crimpers and a wide selection of different connector types. For mine, I'm putting my controller board in an enclosure and will use locking aircraft style connectors for the steppers, and switches.

Will be creating short little wiring harnesses to go from the board to the aircraft connectors.
 
Yeah that’s the real answer Brent.

I can fully understand how they get to this situation. It’s a matter of price point.
Also small biz suffers from lack of working capital . So even if they desire fixing they probably have a stock of these boards such that they in a use up situation before they can change over.
Bigger company would just scrap them and real engineering would have run pre production and field trial before committing to a setup like this.
But it’s a catch 22 with tech cycles being so short where is the line.

So it is what it is and luckily for us types we can make a plan to make it more reliable.




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Well I decided to send Carbide 3D some (what I considered to be constructive feedback including pics and detailed suggestions and a prod of their pride as motivation ), and I guess the “circle took offence” so I got ex communicated from the circle and got my money refunded (not that I was asking for it) to me for not providing feedback in

the correct tone ,
not being constructive and
not being civil.
So that’s the end of this post. Lol.
Guess indirectly I got paid for free engineering and business consulting advice I gave them.

I got told I can keep the machine no need to send back.

But now I am out of the circle. Lol

Just amazes me that they would react this way.

I am tempted to post my full email I sent them.

Could have rather chosen to post it on social media and just send them a link but instead decided to send it direct.

Guess the circle is all powerful these days.

If you don’t know what the circle refers to watch the movie on Netflix staring Tom Hanks.

Next I will have the guys from Matrix arrive to cart me away. Lol

Oh boy guess the truth hurt a tad.
 
Sorry to see that they weren't willing to learn from your experiences Rob. Honestly, this stuff isn't that hard to build and it was probably way overpriced for what you actually got anyway. What you were paying for was the service, which it looks like they weren't willing to give, so you deserve the refund. ;)
 
What? They gave you a full refund and said keep the machine? Strange way to do business. Do they sell so many they can afford to leave a trail of free machines at unhappy customers shops?
 
What? They gave you a full refund and said keep the machine? Strange way to do business. Do they sell so many they can afford to leave a trail of free machines at unhappy customers shops?

Ted I am not a unhappy customer. I gave them some pretty direct free feedback on their engineering with a view to them getting the benefit of some of my Engineering and product development experience.

I pulled no punches but all in the name of improving their product for those that come after me.
I also believe in the USA and the future of US and Canadian Manufacturing what I find is most often more than locals or local businesses do.

So I let them know they letting down the team using double sided tape to hold down drag chains on a machine that’s going to vibrate the heck out of it.

I am thinking of posting my full email so everyone can see what I wrote and hopefully see it in context.

I have tried hard since coming to North America to put my money where my mouth is.
Bought many a machine in the past at way higher price than I needed to in order to support “made in USA or Made in Canada.
But when I see the actual locals are not prepared to do the same it got me changing.

So as I let Carbide know I purchased their machine in order to support local manufacturing, local tech development and a start up tech company. But for that I reserve my democratic right to offer critical feedback.

They did not like my tone, thought I was uncivil (maybe but I am a straight direct arrow not a Kumbaya politician sucking up to people) so if they cannot see through this to the positive side of my constructive criticism then their loss and by the looks of it I gained.
 
Rob, they probably just got their man-buns all wadded up in a knot because they were raised like snowflakes who got participation trophies for losing. Not used to being told they're wrong. :rolleyes: Enjoy your new machine, and improve it however you see fit. :thumb:
 
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