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is it possible for an end grain cutting board to warp?

Dan Noren

Dan Noren

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falcon heights, minnesota
the reason i ask, is that i have a customer trying to tell me that the one inch thick, end grain cutting board, that was dead flat when i sent it out (put a quick coat of mineral oil on it, and it was still as smooth as a baby's butt), after a week or so of cutting just veggies (they claim), has visibly warped. they sent a couple of pics of where a part opened up about 1/32" (all edges were good when i sent it), and will send more pics to show that it warped. i'm not so sure that it can warp, unless left to soak. they say that the only thing done, was to put some butcher block conditioner on it (not sure what this was), and rinsed it with soapy water. not sure what to tell this guy, as the board was one of three that i've sold, and all were 3 years old, and dead flat when i mailed them this year. so far, this is the only mention of this happening to any of my boards over the lase 5 years, and the only thing i can think of, is that it was soaked in water long enough to cause damage.
 
Maybe possible if a glue joint failed or something? I've seen boards fail that have been ran though a dishwasher or soaked in water for a very long time, but no experiences specific to end grain boards.

Wood isn't always going to be predictable. Were it me, I'd probably send them another or a refund. It's hard to say was the culprit was, but sometimes it's best to stand by your reputation in these situations.
 
When I was making cutting boards, I only made a few end grain ones. Out of those, one did fail (not warped, but cracked), but it was my fault. I put a face grain frame around an end grain board. To add to the problem, the board was only about 1/2" to 5/8" thick. Of course, the frame moved at a different speed than the rest of the wood, and not only did some of the glue joints fail, but the wood itself cracked. I replaced it with a much thicker cutting board, with an end grain frame around it. Here's the failed board:

Cracked Quilt Full 800.jpg Cracked Quilt Detail3 800.jpg

And here's the replacement board:

Donna's Board 1 - 800.jpg

Although it does sound like your customer may not be sharing the complete story, I agree with Darren's suggestion of replacing or refunding. You'll take a loss money-wise, but your reputation will gain bigtime.
 
I haven't done a lot of boards. The only time I had that happen was when I made one for my MIL a number of years ago. I gave her instructions to use mineral oil on it occasionally to maintain it after cleaning. Her husband (my FIL, the horse) told her I was stupid and it didn't need any oil. By the time I got it back to look at it, it was so warped that I just made her another one, this time with strict instructions to use the oil like I told her with the first one I had made. To avoid any issues, she has used the new one only for display!
 
I have.had a board separate on glue line figured glue starvation. Never had one warp. Another thing could it have dropped and split the joint?.
Relce or refund and go on. Makes happy customer. Although some can't be stised
David
 
these are the only pic that they sent me. looking at them, there is no evidence of it being warped. i suggested that they send pics with a metal straight edge on it, so i can see the amount of warping. with the shop shut down until spring, and those were my last 3 boards, sending a new one isn't quite in the cards, and i am hesitant (without more proof of it being warped, and the one pic doesn't show any) to refund, after more than 2 weeks of use and abuse. if it had gone out warped, i can see a complaint, but i had fingers on every surface of that one board before it went out, and it was defect free. in the one picture, it looks like the oil is gone, and there is some whitish crud on it, and the table it is on. looking at the surface of it, that is not the glass smooth surface that was there when i sent it out. looking at that grain, it looks like it got soaked a good one at some time in the last 2 1/2 weeks that they have had it. somehow i do not feel responsible for their abuse of the board.
 

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I see a glue line failure. That alone would be enough for me to ask for a replacement board. Maybe the glue line fail is what they are calling a warp. As others have said, you have to keep the customers happy. One bad/malicious review can really hurt your sales.
 
i may decide on a refund, due to lack of other boards, and the shop shut down for the winter. i still think they did something to it, after looking at the pic that shows the surface of the board. looks like its been roughed up, and there is something leaching from the walnut parts, along with whatever that crud is on the table. i agree with you ted, that looks like a glue line failure, but, looking at the rest of the board in the pic, looks like it may have taken a ride in a dishwasher. that was a glass smooth surface when i sent it.
 
I see a glue line failure (like Ted said), but no warpage. Looks like the oil is gone, too. I'd almost bet that board went through the dishwasher.

In any event, in the interest of customer relations, a replacement or refund is in order, but whichever, make sure you get the board back so you can better diagnose what happened to it.
 
I’m in the refund or replace camp. A couple of years ago I sold a clock to a customer after two weeks of correspondence that included several pictures of the clock. Once he got it he found a tiny bit of tear out on the back of the clock (shown in the pictures) and wanted a refund. I ate the freight both ways, nearly $50, but had to do it. I figure it was worth it to maintain my 5 star rating on Etsy. That rating is worth a ton of influence on future customers. Customers have lots of choices these days and one bad review can cost you and you will never even know it.
 
I agree with Jim D.... have them send the board back -- before you send another or a refund... a refund could/would give them a free board as would a replacement... without the return of the original... even if you just scrapped the returned piece at least you would know for sure what happened to it.

I have always required a return of the original before any further action on my part... I recently had a customer that bought my Teleidoscope complain that it was out of focus and the lens had a scratch on it.... I offered a refund that I would activate as soon as I received the teleidoscope back - at his expense. The description on my ETSY site explained that the lens was a clear marble, was not water clear. He sent it back and I initiated his refund less my original shipping charges. I checked it over and didn't see any defects... no problem with focus and no scratches on the marble.... I assume he's happy and I have it back to re-sell.
 
well then, that's what i will do. refund upon receipt of the board. i still find it a bit hard to accept that after better than 2 weeks of use, and a possible run through a dishwasher, that i could he held responsible. a friend of ours tried that on me once, showed me the board, and it had been left to soak over a few days, over the course of 3 months, and never oiled, and expected me to replace it. when they admitted that they abused it in such a manner, it was quietly dropped.
 
I had a close relative use my board and somehow a bunch of moisture got trapped underneath the board and caused some blocks to swell up and crack a glue joint. Since it absorbed the water from underneath, it was a bit warped immediately after the incident, but as it dried out it layed down flat again, although the crack is still there.

I make sure to apply my oil/wax mixture to it which helps prevent it from absorbing the moisture which helps keep it from cracking.

You've gotten good advice from Larry and others. Not worth risking your reputation by arguing with a customer.
 
Just guessing from here. It might be the board is supported at the ends, the glue joints got wet and failed and it buckled downwards from pressure of use. I never put feet or legs on a large board for that reason. I have never made an end grain board, however. Smaller, thicker boards I make are called 'cheese boards'. Those I do put little feet on. Due to thickness and small size I believe such caving in is not likely. What kind of glue to you use?
 
Dan Noren said:
well then, that's what i will do. refund upon receipt of the board. i still find it a bit hard to accept that after better than 2 weeks of use, and a possible run through a dishwasher, that i could he held responsible. a friend of ours tried that on me once, showed me the board, and it had been left to soak over a few days, over the course of 3 months, and never oiled, and expected me to replace it. when they admitted that they abused it in such a manner, it was quietly dropped.
Click to expand...

"dishwasher"? "soak"? Enuf said. Warranty voided.
 
Yes they can warp and will do so often. With a caveat. I’ve made a bunch, and each warps a bit with use, especially when wet. The water wicks into the end grain like a bunch of little straws. Of course, it will flatten out when the moisture evaporates.
 
in a way, it reminds me of something that i had seen at rocklers many years ago. when i walked in, the manager was talking to a group of people who were returning a table saw (this was quite a few years ago, mind you). as i knew the manager, i asked what was up, as he didn't look too happy. he showed my the table saw that had been returned. they had bought it not more than a couple of days prior, and said that it wasn't working right. the saw blade looked like it had been cutting through heavy nails, and there were deep gouges in the table, from what looked like something sharp and metal had gouged them. he said that it looked like they were cutting up a bunch of reclaimed lumber, or pallets, beat the daylights out of it, and brought it back, claiming that it didn't work right. he had no choice but to give a refund, even with the obvious damage.
 
Dan Noren said:
in a way, it reminds me of something that i had seen at rocklers many years ago. when i walked in, the manager was talking to a group of people who were returning a table saw (this was quite a few years ago, mind you). as i knew the manager, i asked what was up, as he didn't look too happy. he showed my the table saw that had been returned. they had bought it not more than a couple of days prior, and said that it wasn't working right. the saw blade looked like it had been cutting through heavy nails, and there were deep gouges in the table, from what looked like something sharp and metal had gouged them. he said that it looked like they were cutting up a bunch of reclaimed lumber, or pallets, beat the daylights out of it, and brought it back, claiming that it didn't work right. he had no choice but to give a refund, even with the obvious damage.
Click to expand...

Yup, there is a good reason to put your return policy and warranty in writing, especially if you're doing on-line sales to cover return cost. I had a friend that was a manager for a major nation wide furniture store, which at the time didn't have a return policy at all. He had one customer that knew this and would come in every couple of years and get a full refund or exchange on the worn out broken down furniture that they bought two years earlier. If they didn't have the same item, they would have to issue a full refund or store credit. This same customer would also bring in stuff that they obviously bought from a garage sale as they'd forget to remove the price stickers once in a while, but my friend didn't make the store policies, so he had to abide by them. Corporate did finally listen, but took a few years and started doing return policies.
 
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