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an electrical problem

Frank Fusco

Frank Fusco

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12,791
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Mountain Home, Arkansas
Most here know I am almost a complete zero with things electric. I can do a few things like change a light bulb, etc.;)
I also know how to change out a wall light switch. Or, I thought I did until yesterday.:(
My basement 'office' (I use the word loosely) has a three-way switch for the overhead lights. One of the switches went bad. I purchased a replacement from Lowe's for all of $1.69. Came home to install it. Being a fraidy cat of things elektrikal, I went to the breaker box to shut off power to the lights in question. I can see them clearly from the box. I tried every one of the single switches and they did not shut off. Would this mean they are wired to half of one of the double (220V) switches? Or might it mean they do not attach to any breaker? Do I have a dangerous situation (beyond my own lack of knowledge)?
Failing to find out, I might just shut down the main switch for the whole house while I replace the switch.
 
For $1.69 you may not have gotten a three way switch. I just bought two and they were much more than that. Also, Gooogle wiring three way circuit. There are some lovely diagrams out there. You have to know whether the hot (black) from the source goes to the one of the switches or the light first. Good luck.
 
If you can't turn off the lights by switching off one breaker at a time until you find the right one, are you certain that this is the only breaker box in or outside the house? If you are certain that you have tried each and every circuit breaker, you need to hire a competent electrician, because you might have a wiring problem that could be dangerous or even start a fire. Let him first figure out why the lights still have power and where it is coming from. Then after he finds and corrects it, have him replace the switch.

Charley
 
First, a switch that costs $1.69 just raises a red flag to me.

Second, a 3 way switch will have more that 2 wires to it. I believe there is also a red wire called a carrier.

Lowes will have decent 3 way switches. You should be able to get a new switch and just change 1 wire at a time from the old to the new.
 
Sounds a bit fishy on the breaker. It's possible someone wired off a 220 leg, that would be easy to find by turning off those breakers too, but also that you may have two breakers feeding the same circuit (obviously both on the same phase or you'd have a bigger issue and sparks).

Did you leave the previous the breakers off as you switched off others?

Or turn off and back on one at a time? If you did off, then back on for each, try turning off and leaving off each until you have all the singles turned off. If one finally turns it off, leave that one off, then turn the others back on one at a time and see if one turns it on, then you'll know the other breaker that is tied to it.
 
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I have to go with Darren as well on this. Does seem a bit weird. I do all of my wiring whether it's 110 or 220 and have for years. A simple one way light switch does average around $2 thereabouts, and those are Leviton's. But, that won't get you a 3 way, I don't think. And as Leo said, you're going to have 3 wires for a 3 way. You have to. Anyway, if you aren't comfortable working with wiring, get an electrician there or a good friend who knows what they are doing with it.
 
Had that problem working on a friends house. Could not turn off power to circuits. Not just one. Traced and traced finally gave up called electican. He found separate circuit breaker box in the crawl space under the house. Couldn't figure reason for that.
David
 
Carol Reed said:
For $1.69 you may not have gotten a three way switch. I just bought two and they were much more than that. Also, Gooogle wiring three way circuit. There are some lovely diagrams out there. You have to know whether the hot (black) from the source goes to the one of the switches or the light first. Good luck.
Click to expand...

The switch was shown on their website as three way and they had a couple boxes of them at the store. I suspect they sell a lot of these. But, that is not my problem.
 
Darren Wright said:
Sounds a bit fishy on the breaker. It's possible someone wired off a 220 leg, that would be easy to find by turning off those breakers too, but also that you may have two breakers feeding the same circuit (obviously both on the same phase or you'd have a bigger issue and sparks).

Did you leave the previous the breakers off as you switched off others?

Or turn off and back on one at a time? If you did off, then back on for each, try turning off and leaving off each until you have all the singles turned off. If one finally turns it off, leave that one off, then turn the others back on one at a time and see if one turns it on, then you'll know the other breaker that is tied to it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good idea. I'll try today. If that doesn't work I'll shut off the main and replace the switch. I'm also going to check to see if there are switches with built in breakers. This situation scares me.
 
There will be three terminals on a three way switch. The switch on their website may not be the switch in your hand. Several of us have pointed out the price seems way too low for a three way switch. Shutting everything off to wire in a new switch without knowing how your present circuit is wired is a big gamble. I am certain burning the place down would ruin your day. Think of paying an electrician as making an insurance payment.

Here is a link to check out.

https://www.familyhandyman.com/electrical/wiring-switches/how-to-wire-a-threeway-switch/view-all/
 
Thanks for that link Carol. The power coming to the fixture explains the problem that I had when trying to install a socket to the switch box. It wasn't a three way switch, but it wasn't until I had hooked up and installed the switch and receptacle that I found out the power wasn't coming to the switch.
In another house I had been able to change the switch to a switch/receptacle combo.
My house was built in the sixties and the bathroom still has a light fixture with an outlet built in. Fortunately the outlet has a ground socket.
 
I finally got my discounted $1.69 3-way switch installed. The circuit is half of a 220 breaker switch that also goes to our electric range upstairs. Change was made with minimal difficulty. All works and I don't smell smoke........yet. ;) I did turn off every switch in the breaker box and left them off until I replaced the wall switch.
 
Frank Fusco said:
Amp? I don't know an amp from a c cell. :eek: Next time I have a friend over with some knowledge I'll have him check it out. Thanks for the tip.
Click to expand...

Your lighting wires are likely 12 or maybe even 14 gauge. The stove is likely 40-50 amps.
http://www.nojolt.com/residential_e..._in_guide.shtml #Wire-Size-Application-Guide

The circuit breakers job is to protect the wire. Basically smaller wire needs a smaller breaker otherwise if there is a short the breaker may not trip and the wire in the wall can overheat and literally catch on fire.

A rather dramatic example is if you take a low amp/voltage source (like a D cell battery) and apply it to really thin wire (steel wool) you can use it to easily start a fire (example video below). If you took the same battery and applied a 12 gauge wire to it, it might get a smidge warm but not much else would happen (other than draining the battery). Same basic idea but bigger.

 
I'll leave out mention of amps or volts or wire gauges...

In a nutshell Frank, running a light circuit off one side of a stove circuit is not a good idea and potentially dangerous. You essentially have no circuit breaker protecting the wire that's hooked up to the light. If that wire were to short out, bad things would happen.
 
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