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Eastern red Aromatic Cedar...need to save color!

Denise Walsh

Denise Walsh

Member
Messages
114
Location
Georgia
It's been a while since I posted on family woodworking..but couldn't think of a better place to ask for help. My customer has selected a piece of Eastern red Aromatic Cedar for her fireplace mantle (6' x 10" x 6"). This was cut today and shows the beautiful colors throughout. From what I've read the colors will go away within a few days/weeks if not sealed with a coating that has UV protectant properties. Even if lacquer is used it will yellow within a few years and the process will need to be repeated. Fireplace is gas so no extreme heat. No direct light will hit the mantle but plenty of bright indirect light from a wall of glass doors. Mantle will be surrounded by stone but will be removable/reversible. One side has a strip of bark on it and the customer wants to change it around from time to time. The mantle will sit on the cut offs as shown in the pics and they will also need to be sealed. The home is on the GA coast but there shouldn't be any humidity issues in this home. Any suggestions on how to properly seal this piece?

Thank you!
 

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Jonathan Shively said:
Denise!!!!!!!!:wave: I'm sorry I don't have any answers for your questions, but wanted to say, "HELLO! Glad you stopped by and hope to see you around more."
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Thanks Jonathan! If I keep getting projects like this I'm sure you'll see me around more. I know there's a wealth of information here!!
 
As far as I know you don't stand much of a chance in preventing color change. Indoor and out of the sunlight will help but it is more a chemical process within the wood itself. I have a number of pieces in my shop and a few that were cut months ago have already begun to change. Sealing them from the air I think is the best bet. Know finish is a perfect seal and will only slow it down. Let the customer know this or they could be calling you months from now.
 
It's going to change, no matter what finish you use. A finish with a UV protectant will help, but will only slow the changes by a few months - maybe a couple years if you're lucky.

An oil-based finish will slightly darken the wood from the git-go, so I'd opt for a waterborne finish.

For furniture, I'm partial to Target Coatings EM8000cv, which is a pre-cat varnish, and is very durable, and has only a very slight amber tint to it. A water-clear, and still durable, finish would be Target's EM6000 waterborne lacquer.

As I said though, the color change in the wood will still happen - you're just slowing it down a bit.
 
I know some people use dyes on elder to keep the red. In theory that might be possible here as well, but me and dyes are kind of like a keg of dynamite and a box of primers left with a two year old and a hammer, exciting but not very pretty so I'm going to forebear making any suggestions in that regard.
 
Robert, Jim and Ryan...thank you for your responses! I had a wild thought while noodling through this further. Would bar counter epoxy work for this application? Would that seal the wood air tight enough so the wood would retain it's color?
 
In short, no. Color change in wood like this is light reactive, not just air and/or chemistry. Fifty years ago in Wisconsin and Minnesota there was a huge trade in kitschy touristy gimmicks made from red cedar. After a short time, that luscious red turned brown. Cherry is another wood that does this. It is natural to these woods and we soon learn we cannot mess with Mother Nature.
 
Well said Carol....

I remember how Cherry turns very dark over time and there really wasn't any way to slow down the color change. I'll just have to explain this all to my customer.

Thanks to all who chimed in!
 
All woods darken to some extent with exposure to light/UV. Red cedar left outside will turn gray from the elements. But, indoors there will not be much change. Don't fret it. If you want to restore the aroma every year or so, a light sanding will open new cells. Same with inside of cedar chests.
 
Thanks Frank!
I'm planning (I believe) to seal the entire piece with lacquer. One side has a natural edge and pith which is softer than the rest of the surface. There are a couple areas that will need to be filled. IMG_20180216_114140135_HDR.jpgThe larger one that is a knot like hole we plan to leave unfilled but the others will need to be puttied.IMG_20180216_114155837_HDR.jpg Is there a good putty that can be picked up at a big box store that would be good to use?
 
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Ah, putty! And good putty yet. Meaning you want it to stay in place over the years and not to look awful. Here is the problem. Putty can be hand that doesn't shrink - but wood moves. Putty can be had that accepts stain - but the color of wood changes over time. The thinking with putty is to fill in - and somewhat - hide the blemish.

May I make a suggestion? Clear resin carefully applied will give you a look into a deep hole to suggest the mysteries of the wood within. Can't hide it, highlight it. Especially since you are planning on a film finish - even epoxy.

Good luck.
 
+1 to epoxy. fill. I've never gotten putty to look decent myself, it always looks like .. well.. putty (even if you get it really close up front as Carol noted you're chasing a problem down the road).

Alternative to the clear resin is to use black which is a bit more forgiving if you have a hard time getting all of the bubbles out (having everything warm and careful mixing can minimize or eliminate bubbles but it still takes some practice to get right). I agree that clear would look better if applied properly.
 
Denise Walsh said:
Thanks Frank!
I'm planning (I believe) to seal the entire piece with lacquer. One side has a natural edge and pith which is softer than the rest of the surface. There are a couple areas that will need to be filled. View attachment 101974The larger one that is a knot like hole we plan to leave unfilled but the others will need to be puttied.View attachment 101975 Is there a good putty that can be picked up at a big box store that would be good to use?
Click to expand...

Well......others have chimed in on this. Those are pretty large voids to be filling. The best filler I have found is Timber Mate. A bit pricey but does the job. As for the color, lacquer will do nothing to stop the color change. Some marine products will slow it but will not stop it. At one time, a long-long time ago and in a galaxy far-far away, I was on a ww forum that had member called the Lumber Lady. She sold a product she claimed did stop the color change. I never tried it. Unfortunately, she died and took or secret with her. As for your voids. Methinks getting clever and cutting them larger and filling with contrasting wood could be a better measure. Or just leave alone and/or strengthen with bow-tie inlets.
 
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