Client needs new drawers

Shaz,

I'm glad you've given SU a look-see. I find it invaluable for design. For example, with your case of drawers, you could use SU to find the proper dimensions to maximize the number of drawers in the given space. You could easily move them around, change all of their dimensions at once, etc.

Enough about SU in this interesting thread....back to that woman's drawers...;)

- Marty -
 
On that story pole which is longer than 60" I have nailed on a stop block so I can bump the plywood at the bottom edge and catch the bottom with a fixed block. Clamp story pole. Then proceed to mark on what will be the inside of the cabinet, a center line for the holes of the drawer slides, (the part of the two part drawer guide that will be mounted to the cabinet)
Mark in the front and back location of the Drawer guide holes then connect the dots.
This photo shows the story pole, clamped, set in place with the predetermined marks on the face of the story pole and also squared down the edge for a more accurate mark on the plywood side. I then use a square block like the mahogany piece shown to line up with the mark on the story pole and continue that line onto the plywood side. As can be seen on the story pole I have the 3/4" plywood floor marked at about mid way on the mahogany block and the lines with the circles are the drawer guide placement marks. Hopefully you can see the drawer size drawn on the SP
(story pole) 1/4" space above the 3/4" plywood floor marks, 15/16" to the drawer guide center line, 4" above center line and 1/4" space between drawers.
 

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I figured a space of about 7" under the bottom shelf for storage. A 3/4" top and floor and 3/4" spreader, with 1/4" between drawers and 1/2" baltic birch floors screwed to the bottom of the drawers would allow me 4 1/2" sides for the drawers to hold the teeth. This plan gives me 9-drawers with dimensions of approx. 22 1/2"x 21" x 4 1/2" inside, and a leftover drawer at the top a wee bit smaller.
 

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Shaz,

I'm glad you've given SU a look-see. I find it invaluable for design. For example, with your case of drawers, you could use SU to find the proper dimensions to maximize the number of drawers in the given space. You could easily move them around, change all of their dimensions at once, etc.

Enough about SU in this interesting thread....back to that woman's drawers...;)

- Marty -
I believe what you say and even as you mention the ways I could be using it on this project I see the value. It is in the practice and the help:) .
Thanks, glad you are up and at it again.
Shaz
 
Just wanted to chime in and say thanks...and keep them pics and explanations coming. I've not really done any cabinet work, so I'm learning all sorts of new things here.
 
Thank you Vaughn,
In this situation, once the drawer sizes have been determined, vertically,
we consider the space above and below the drawer, the actual height of the drawer, in this case the thickness of the floor, (1/2" shy) which will be screwed to the underside of the drawer sides which will be 4 1/2"s tall totalling 5" for the drawer, 1/4" above and below each drawer, 1/4" space between the drawers and the spreader, 1/4" above the cabinet floor and 1/4" below the top fixed piece. All this is all documented on the story pole as well. We will have no drawer fronts per se on these pieces but rather create an easy grip and pull of the drawer itself by cutting a comfortable curve in the front piece of the four sided drawer. The photo shows an up close of the story pole.
Once all these dimensions have been established then the drawers can be built. The drawer guides can be mounted on the drawers so that any drawer will fit anywhere except the top tee nee wee nee drawer.
 

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The sides will look like this when finished mounting the drawer guides. The top drawer guide will have a smaller drawer vertically, and 20" front to back as we are going to mount a horizontal cleat behind it for stability and in case we need to attach through this to the wall with a screw.
 

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The first drawer unit we built, the prototype was 60" tall x 25" wide x 24 5/8" deep, the sides made to accomodate 24" drawer guides, the 1/4" back and a little extra room inside where the drawers are mounted, about 3/8". Well as stuff happens it was too wide to fit through the 24 1/8" opening.:doh: People in the waiting room, Dental assistants scurrying around, and my buddy laughing quietly as the thing does not fit and it weighs a ton with all drawers in it. :poke:
How do we get out of this one? My friends always make it a chuckle when stuff seems to not be working out as I try so hard to consider every aspect before we deliver. They are my age and know somehow when we are done "IT WILL WORK". :crash: They are always giving me the " oh, this ain't gonna fit, this is too tall, we will never get this around that corner". It must be payback for building stuff in as few pieces as possible and then having them complain about the weight knowing that it is built and we must carry it up stairs and around the corner, oh well , pay back is h@%#. :D
Fortunately we gained all the room we needed when we took off the cafe (swinging) doors and extracted the metal casing that covered the jamb, floor to ceiling. It was just clipped on to brackets that had been screwed in prior to the jamb install.It clipped over the metal stud and the sheetrock on both sides.
New opening measured 24 5/8" just like the box, with that measurement we cannot be denied! :thumb: In, almost, "ARE YOU PUSHING?" "WELL PUSH "!:bang: and in. Note to self :type: , Make next boxes a little bit smaller.
P.S. Measure doorway opening in the future.
Shaz
 
Literally LOL...Mr. Detail-oriented missed the doorway measurement. Sounds like someting I'd do. Great story so far. :rofl:
Thanks Vaughn, you are too kind.
Basically the drawers need built. How much material? Let us figure one cabinet of nine 4 1/2" high drawers with 1/2" floors, each side roughly 24" deep, and the front and back, roughly a bit less than 24". One top drawer with the same outside estimate and a 1/2" floor.
ESTIMATE FOR MATERIALS... floors- We need 10 floors per cabinet- 24"x24" x 1/2" . 1/2" Baltic birch comes 60" x 60", we get 4 floors per sheet, since we have 10 drawers and 1 cabinet needs 2 and 1/2 sheets, lazy as I am I figure the total amount for the 1/2". 4 floors per sheet, 40 floors total = 10 sheets B.B. ( for all 4 cabinets) Next,...
Drawer sides Using C-3 birch in 4' x8' sheets ... we have 9- 4 1/2" drawers.
9 times 4 1/2" plus the amount lost to the saw kerf, estimate it at 4 3/4" generously, totals out to 42 3/4" plus the top drawer = about 1 sheet of 4' x 8' per cabinet for the sides and the front and back of all drawers.
Here is how our measurements worked out with the 60" height restriction.
42 3/4" for sides, 10- 1/2" floors ( 47 3/4") 7" space under the cabinet floor,(54 3/4") 3- 3/4" horizontal dividers, and the 1/4" space between everything, about 3" ( 57 3/4" ) then 2 1/4" for the top drawer or what ever is left over. Needed material for one cabinet, 2 and 1/2 sheets 60"x 60" x 1/2" baltic birch, 1 -4' x8'x 3/4" plywood for the drawer sides, 1- 4' x8'x 3/4" ply for the cabinet sides, top, bottom and spreader.
Drawer guides--- I used 9- KV 8505 full extention 24" 150 lb. rating guides for the larger drawers and 1- 8400 KV full extention 20" 100lb. rating for the small top drawer. We will need a back, I use 1/4" birch good one side
and since the sides will not be seen I will run it flush to the edges and the top and staple it on. And also some solid stock to edge band the cabinet with will be needed.
I don't know if the way I am writing this is clear. I am trying to share how to build drawers that work , not dovetailed, but drawers this client is paying for because they work. If you don't understand it may be my fault. Let me know.
Shaz
 
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Hi Don,
Over the years I have used different matrials for drawer bottoms. In this instance I choose the 1/2" for several reasons.
#1 I wanted a bottom that was without flex in a span of 22" x22" + or - to put the zip lock bags in. You are correct, the 1/4" would work with the 20- 25# but think of the audible sound difference..With the 1/2" mounted from the underside, stapled and screwed the drawer will remain square whether in or out of the cabinet. It becomes more of a box, rather than a four sided drawer with a dado for the floor insert.
#2 With all the bags sticking up, I wanted them to rub gingerly on the flat drawer bottom above all the way out and back in rather than have some of them hit the hang down of the drawer above.
#3 For the look, since the 4 1/2" edge of the plywood sides will be showing, and since we will be routing it all around..the visibility of that 1/2" ply showing in the front is in fact a plus, and rounds over and takes lacquer and 220 grit real well. We want to make sure that "even more Ladies who need new drawers will call because they like our drawers, the look the feel, with no chance of getting a run in the hosiery or snag in the sweater or worse yet... a splinter! :doh: " I think I will start telling the girls "Hey come look at my drawers, I'm proud of my drawers!".:D
#4 price, Floors for me are basically 1/4" birch at about $16.00 a 4'x8' ....32 sq. ft or 1/2" baltic b. at about $18- $21.00 5'x5'...25 sq.ft. Honestly price here does not matter as much as quality and longevity. Over kill will be appreciated here by the client and by you. Oh and I also use the 1/2" baltic birch for alot of my drawer sides too. The drops are worth saving.
Thanks for asking, Good luck Don,
Shaz
 
Been wanting to push on with this project and make the big girl happy with some new drawers but stuff happens and since she is in no great hurry, "great having a client like that", I have choosen to build two table bases.
My friend had these two table slab, one about 7'x3'x1 3/4" in purple heart, a three piece glue up, and one about 30"x10'x2" bookmatched, spalted pecan.
He needed money so he sold the table tops as a package with the bases, The bases which were not as of yet built, needed built. The buyer was to do the sand and finish. see photos below
Then too the walnut console, 81 1/4" x24" with the left and right side 19" deep and the center 22" deep, on wheels plus... plus.. plus..
anyhow the ladies drawer that I wanted to get back into have been waiting patiently on the sidelines, with me anxiously awaiting my return to that project, a joyful endeavor as most of the projects I do for the ladies are. Something about making a girl feel good!:)
Shaz :)
 

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Back to the building of the drawers. Remember, we have 9 drawers all the same size in each of four cabinets to build, plus one thin drawer for each of those cabinets also.
Total of 40 drawers all 23 13/26" deep x approximately 22 1/2" wide.
I recap how these dimensions were determined. Using 24" KV 8505 heavy duty full extension drawer guides, 150 lb. rating to fit a 24" deep cavity, and looking at the screw holes in the drawer guides it made sense to me to make the drawersides 23 13/16" deep. Why not 24"? In this instance I felt it better to give the drawers a little space between the back of the drawer and the 1/4" piece I will nail on as a backer, since the cavity was 24" deep.
It is going to take a full sheet of plywood to make drawers for one cabinet. Half of the sheet will be crosscut for sides and half will be used for the front and back.Since I am going to crosscut the 4'x 8' plywood to the" drawer depth , the front to back" dimension first(23 13/16" ) I will cut the sheet in half first. With each saw cut I lose 1/8". First set table saw fence at 47 15/16" and crosscut ( for lack of a better term we will call this new cut line "the cut edge"). Our hope is to achieve a cleaner cut on the plywood than came from the factory. The edge all around the outside of the 4'x8' plywood is called the factory edge. Since I am making 4 cabinets I will crosscut 4 sheets of plywood at 47 15/16". I now have 8 pieces Then resetting the fence to 23 13/16" I will crosscut 4 pieces with " the cut edge" riding against the fence. I have now 8 pieces crosscut at 23 13/16" x 48", with two "cut edges" 48" long and two factory edges 23 13/16" long in line with the grain on each of the 8 pieces.
More later, about the front and back.
Shaz
 
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Our material inventory for drawers now is 8 pieces 23 13/16" x 4' for the sides and 4 pieces 4'x4' to be cut for the front and back. I have come to like the idea of sandwiching the front and back pieces between the two sides. This considered, if the cavity between the two walls( with the drawer guides attached )is determined by the measurement of the width of the floor, the top and the spreader, all being the same width at 23 1/2" , that dimension 23 1/2" less the thickness of the drawer slides( manufactured recommends 1" to 1 1/16" )will equal the outside dimension of the drawer from left to right. Does this make sense so far or is it too much blah blah blah?:huh:
Shaz
 
Shaz

so far so good ...............

I missed something I think, are you going to put false fronts on the drawers to hide the ends of the slides?

Jay
 
Shaz

so far so good ...............

I missed something I think, are you going to put false fronts on the drawers to hide the ends of the slides?

Jay
Hi Jay,
not sure if I made it clear before but the answer is no. The drawers need to serve a purpose with no need for aesthetics.:type: However, with this same plan, and this is probably why I have spent so much time on these basics principles, you will be expected to create real fronts for your girl's new drawers, maybe like these.:D Resize drawers011.jpg Or like these drawers. (If you are a girl and can make your own drawers, my hat's off to you, if I wore a hat.)Resize drawers012.jpg These are some drawers at the shop where I keep hinges, screws, drawings, knobs, misc. stuff, clips, etc. This is a great project upon which to mount those very special pieces of wood you have been saving. You can showcase some of your wood.:thumb:
Shaz
Pearls here somewhere:rolleyes:
 
We have 4 -4'x4' pieces that we have to cut into drawer fronts and backs. To get the right distance we subtract 1" -1 1/16" for the drawer guides, and the thickness of the two drawer sides, because the front and back fit in between them. For me that is 21 1/8" wide. I will have 23 1/2" between the two walls of the cabinet. I will crosscut and end up with 8 pieces 48" x21 1/8".
 
I've seen quite a few plaster model storage bins used in the dental inudstry, and your design is pretty unique compared to those I am familiar with. Most use about a 9" deep (front to back) pull out bins that are pretty small (about 4.5 inches, like you note), and very shallow (top to bottom). They tend to have removable dividers, and resemble apothecary type drawers (think old school library card storage).

Most I have seen were plastic, and certainly were not "aesthetically pleasing." Then again, none of those ever used ball bearing slides, either, let alone 40 pairs of them.

If these are going to be kept for 10 years (that's longer than I have ever heard . . . wow), there is going to have to be some method for organizing. Are you making removable dividers in each drawer so that indexing cards can be used to identify each plaster cast? If they are just "open" drawers, it will quickly become a mess in there, and it will take forever if a particular cast ever needs to be brought out.
 
I've seen quite a few plaster model storage bins used in the dental inudstry, and your design is pretty unique compared to those I am familiar with. Most use about a 9" deep (front to back) pull out bins that are pretty small (about 4.5 inches, like you note), and very shallow (top to bottom). They tend to have removable dividers, and resemble apothecary type drawers (think old school library card storage).

Most I have seen were plastic, and certainly were not "aesthetically pleasing." Then again, none of those ever used ball bearing slides, either, let alone 40 pairs of them.

If these are going to be kept for 10 years (that's longer than I have ever heard . . . wow), there is going to have to be some method for organizing. Are you making removable dividers in each drawer so that indexing cards can be used to identify each plaster cast? If they are just "open" drawers, it will quickly become a mess in there, and it will take forever if a particular cast ever needs to be brought out.
Hi Homer,
Thanks for responding with your comments and questions. I sometimes wonder if I am "playing to an empty house" or am I too long winded, or have confused people to the point that they cannot respond.
I remember the Dewey Decimal System in the library, Do you remember the Peterson Handwriting Method for cursive? Way back.
Anyhow, my client is fitting in about 40 client's teeth per drawer. They have about 2000 client's with castings of their teeth. When finished they will have 45 drawers available for those molds. Also room under each set of drawers for plastic containers if more space is needed.
They will be using plastic bags which can be labeled at the top on the bag, and then drawer computerized for tracking, no dividers and no stacking one atop the other. To find the teeth, find drawer, "card file" through 40 plastic envelopes.
It seems to work for them as I made one drawer unit from which they ordered 4 more with out changes.
Do you do stuff like this?
Shaz
 
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