Snag List Nightmares

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161
Location
Stockport, England
I don't know how you pro guys over there go about things, but when I get towards the end of an big installation job, I have found it a good policy to invite the client to prepare a 'snag list' of all the little blemishes, glitches etc so that I can work through it and sign the job off to their satisfaction and get paid. I find that being upfront like this generally disarms the client and they give me an easy time.

However, this morning I have had an email from the most miserable clients I can remember. We've done a really nice job of two bedrooms for them, and I reckoned that I would just have to pop back with a caulk gun for half an hour or so and pick up a cheque.

The 'snag list' runs to three pages, everything of almost complete irrelevence. Things like a cleat that is almost invisible inside a closet is slightly darker in colour than the rest! I know for a fact that they were all cut from the same board of oak!

I guess I'm just going to have to smile nicely and spend the whole day there.

Customers eh! Who needs 'em?

The worst thing is I've got an order to do another 2 bedrooms and their dining room. What would you do?

Whinge over!
 
Double you price :D

If you need the work, you need the work, I guess, but there comes a point where you just do not want to work for certain customers anymore.

I've had my share of wine customers like this, in a very similar vein.

They come in to the shop a half dozen times, and pick my brain, talk my ear off and then buy nothing, saying they will buy the next time. Now if I'm in the shop at a down time, I have no problem chatting with customers, in fact, I often very much enjoy it, but these people seem to come in at the worst time, 6 PM on a Friday, payday, for example, there are half a dozen people in the queue for the till, and only my wife and I in the shop, plus, I've got deliveries to do etc. You get the picture.

In the end, I often just brush these guys off, sure, once in a blue moon they buy a good bottle of wine, but it is not worth it to me. I usually find out from others in the business that these guys make their rounds, and most of the decent bottle shops know them.

For you, like I said, if you need the business, you need it, but if you have a bit of work lined up, why not tell them a wait is coming, and due to how busy you are, the price will go up as well (blame that on having to hire more helpers, and or the price of petrol, as it must have gone up over there too! ;) ).

Bit of a tough spot for sure........wonder what the septics will have to say ;) :D :rofl:

Cheers!
 
Like Stu says - depends on your order book. If you have a nice backlog then just postpone on them. Have you quoted for the other work yet - if not then add 2 days to each quote for snagging and if they ask about the extra cost over the work that you have already done then say that you now have a clearer view of the quality standard that they are seeking and are better able to price accordingly.

And thank you for reminding me once again why I make a product rather than do bespoke work!!
 
Interesting...a snag list over there would be a called punch list here in the States. Another case of two cultures divided by a common language. :D
 
Interesting...a snag list over there would be a called punch list here in the States. Another case of two cultures divided by a common language. :D

You're dead right Vaughn - over here a punch list would contain the names of people who make up stupid things to put on snag lists.
 
duncan, every customer wants to believe that they are the consummate "hunter-gatherer" and has done the best they`re able for their family........obviously you`ve educated this couple on what quality work is so now they`re looking for reasons to justify writing the check you`re waiting for. for the next phase be honest with them and yourself and add a pita charge to the bid in advance, make it clear that if the customer gets involved in the build by stopping by and offering input during the construction/finishing stages there should be a very small "snag" list and you`d be happy to waive a portion of the pita charges. but if the customer chooses to wait untill check time to voice concerns that the amount of work required is substantially more and that`s why you`re including the additional charges on the bid....tod
 
I have worked with people for years and I have simple rule.

"Some people are not worth working for at any price!"

Just yesterday I was thinking about this. I had a potential client call me and start in on something. I don't remember details but basically I hadn't done anything for him yet and was trying to tell me how to do it, or how I was wrong. I quickly knew I didn't want to work for him and just told him I felt we couldn't work together and that he would be better off finding someone else. He was taken back by that and I made my exit and got off the phone.

In your case, I would see if they were happy with your repairs and then decide if it was worth doing more for them. Sometimes they are just not worth the effort!

Jeff
 
Yep, I use a "punch list"

In Michigan we are required to "stand behind" our work for 18 months.

It was getting close to that 18 months on the house I included pics on, when the homeowner nicely asked if i would mind coming over to go over a few "things"

Now I have been done and out of their to their "satisfaction" for a year and a half. I got a list of three pages on a legal size pad to "look at" this went from checking out a screw that came loose on a cabinet ( I did not build) to replacing weatherstripping (he bought) on a door his cat tore up...all maintenance issues.

Why am I responsible for the normal wear and tear done by him, his wife AND the family cat?

I spent the whole day because I wanted to keep the customer happy, even though I could have legally not had to do his "maintenance"


as promised....pics of the home

GardenBay

GardenBay
 
Why am I responsible for the normal wear and tear done by him, his wife AND the family cat?

I spent the whole day because I wanted to keep the customer happy, even though I could have legally not had to do his "maintenance"

You aren't. And I'm amazed that you did. But I am confident that it will serve as good advertising...

(I know who *I* would call if I were building a house/barn out in SW Michigan.)
 
If you are going to be dealing with the public, you will encounter people like this occasionally. As Jeff indicated, look for signs up front. If you are alert for the signs, jerks will often reveal themselvs early on. Good luck with the currents situation.
 
Customers eh! Who needs 'em?

The worst thing is I've got an order to do another 2 bedrooms and their dining room. What would you do?

Whinge over!

I'd do kinda what Stu suggested, though maybe not double. In your next bid for them, its not unreasonable to allow for a day or two of very unproductive fiddling at the end to make sure they're happy. I never minded doing this sort of thing (much) as long as the customer didn't EVER try to haggle on the price. As soon as they suggested I "sharpen my pencil" on the initial bid, I would rather go flip burgers than work for them, because to me it was a red flag that they either they were the sort who had to play little games to ensure that they got the best possible deal, or couldn't really afford what they wanted. So that's what I'd do (though I don't do this for a living anymore), give them an appropriately higher bid, and if they don't complain about the expense, then no worries.
 
Like Stu says - depends on your order book. If you have a nice backlog then just postpone on them. Have you quoted for the other work yet - if not then add 2 days to each quote for snagging and if they ask about the extra cost over the work that you have already done then say that you now have a clearer view of the quality standard that they are seeking and are better able to price accordingly.

And thank you for reminding me once again why I make a product rather than do bespoke work!!

I'm delighted to report that my order book is full till Christmas! To be honest, it would be a relief to lose this couple's extra business as it came from a quote I gave last year. Since then I've hiked my prices by 50%!

Anyway, I'm tied up on another job so I'm sending one of my subby fitters there today (at a cost of £150) to try and get as finished as poss.

As to your final point, my doing bespoke or custom work was a conscious decision in order to try and make my business 'China proof'. My worry if I was making production runs of a product would be that if it was successful then someone would notice, get it copied in China or SE Asia, and flood the market at a fraction of my prices. The more successful you are, the more likely it is to happen. Copyrights count for nothing in the furniture game.

I don't know exactly what your product is Ian, but if I were you I'd keep it to myself for a while! You might be able to delay the arrival of the first container by a few months while you work on the design of your replacement range!

Or get some money together and book a flight to Indonesia! That new unit of yours would make a nice warehouse. Forget China unless you've got $10m in the bank - they're only interested in really big players.

Cheers
Duncan
 
Just today my son, (Electrical superintendent for a major construction Co. in the area) was telling me that what he thought was a job completion 20 days ahead of schedule just dropped back because (just today) in the walkthrough he does with the Project Boss (General Contractor's lead man) he was asked about the "Addendums"... "What Addendums?", he says.... :dunno: Seems his Contract Manager hadn't added them to the plans. Now he is 10 days behind instead of 20 ahead. (He gets Bonused by work days saved, so this is a Bite in the arse) :(

Knowing my son and his work ethics, he will still bring the job in ahead of schedule. :thumb:
 
Update

I received an updated snag list from my client this morning. I've just emailed him back as follows

Dear XXXX,

Let's assume for a minute that we come round and sort out to your
satisfaction the twenty or so genuine 'snags' together with the sixty or so
more spurious ones detailed in your email.

Your account would then stand as follows;

Original order for Bedroom 3 in Oak £3500.00
Bed £850.00
Design changes at your insistance* £500.00
Original order for Bedroom 2 in painted MDF £1820.00
Upgrade to oak £620.00
Design changes at your insistance * £260.00

________

£7550.00

Plus VAT @17.5% £1321.25

Total £8871.25

Less Deposit paid £1277.81

Total Due £7593.44


* Changes to style of door and from lay-on to in-frame design.

I am sure that you do not want me to do any more work for you and I am
equally sure that I do not want to do any more work for you.

My suggestion then, is this;

You pay me £3000.00 in full and final settlement for the work done to date.

This way you get some very nice fitted furniture at a ridiculously low price
and I get to cap my losses and get on with my next job. We all win.

As a gesture of goodwill I am happy to send Nick out for the day today at my
expense to correct the major faults.

You can give him a cheque.

I await your response

Rgds
Duncan


I really hope he goes for it. I'll lose some money but be a happier man!!
 
...As to your final point, my doing bespoke or custom work was a conscious decision in order to try and make my business 'China proof'....

I completely understand your point Duncan but hate to say that I am not sure that anybody is china proof. I used to work in IT with guys who thought that the nature of their knowledge made them "india proof" and they were wrong. I already have to compete with cheaper version of what I make which are sourced in volume from a variety of nations with a lower cost base than I have and to be honest have been doing so since day 1. I compete the same way you and everybody else does by offering a good quality product at as good a price as I can and offering the best service possible.

The cost model for sourcing in China is going to change significantly in the not too distant future. The cost of shipping has increased 100% in the last 12 months and is predicted to continue to grow because demand exceeds capacity (friends who sell and charter ships for a living).

The chinese government has also made changes to currencies and export tax credits which will push those prices up a little bit more. None of this is going to make cheap labour imports go away but cheap (china cheap anyway) labour does not live next to European Oak forests and my biggest line is made in European Oak and uses that as a USP. It also helps that I aim my sales more towards the top end of the quality pile rather than the bottom end of the price pile.

I got my first email from a chinese manufacturer showing me a photograph of my product, a photgraph that I took, and offering it for sale to me, 6 years ago. Since then I have received about 100 from different rip-off manufacturers. None of them has yet brought anything comparable to the market.

All of which leads to - I appreciate your concern and share it to some extent but there are more ways than one to give yourself some protection from it.
 
...I got my first email from a chinese manufacturer showing me a photograph of my product, a photgraph that I took, and offering it for sale to me, 6 years ago...
That's some serious chutzpah! (Actually the CoC prevents me from calling it what I really think it is.) :rolleyes:
 
Duncan,
After reading your post about these fussy clients would it be a good idea to take a digital camera to document in pictures all the 'snags" the client has listed? That way if they tried to claim later on about some small issue you could then provide proof that it was addressed in proper fashion before.
 
cutting 4500 pounds?! no-friggin` way! you did the work, they authorized every change and offered no input until check time.....i`d march my butt down to your solicitors office and drop it in his lap....you still might only get the 3k but at least you can feel better about the whole deal.
 
I'm with Tod! Can you put a contractor's lien on the property if they don't pay? That can happen in the States, that is why I get a signed release from anyone who works on my place stating that they have been paid in full and don't have any claims.

Jay
 
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