Gold Leaf....................DONE!!!

Stuart Ablett

Member
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Location
Tokyo Japan
I need some advice on doing some gold leaf.

I have a project for a customer, and they want something really artsy, and eye catching (they are rich, and like their "bling")

I suggested some gold leaf in one of my turnings they like the sound of REAL GOLD so I'm off to the races ::)

I've got the gold leaf, the glue, and brushes, and I have a basic idea on what to do.

This is the turning I want to add the gold leaf too, in the middle cup or bowl area. I'll also be adding some accents around the cup, very minor ones.

gold_inlay.JPG

This is what I know of the process so far.

You have to get it really smooth, sand it, and sand it again, I've read that applying sanding sealer several times and sanding up to #800 is a good idea, as you want a really smooth surface.

Then you apply the glue and wait for it to tack, it should be almost dry, but not quite. You put the gold on, and then pad it gently into place, with a smooth balled up tissue. Then, let it dry, best over night, once dry, you use a soft dry brush to brush out any loose gold leaf that did not get stuck in place with glue.

Big-time question, after the gold leaf, do you seal it with anything? The rest of the piece will be rattle can lacquer then buffed out, is it OK to do the rattle can lacquer over the gold leaf? ???

Any helpful advice would be appreciated.

Cheers!

PS this is one half of the wood from this thread..........

No place for a resaw...??
 
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you`re safe to lacquer over gold leaf stu........i was taught to apply the leaf with a brush, but any way to get it stuck will work.
 
Pete, that is where I got the idea from! :D

On his "Blue" piece. In the DVD, he does not say anything about sealing it at all :dunno:

Why I want to know is, for finishing, I've got the sealer coat on, the whole thing, but I like the idea of putting the leaf on while the piece is still chucked up, easier to do (I hope) and the sable brush at the end to knock off any excess leaf should be good too.

Unfortunately I do not have the leaf on transfer paper, they were out of "Real" gold, so I got it in this container that has a bunch pieces in it, might be a real pain to work with?

Oh well, that is another advantage to leaving the piece chucked up, if I don't like the leaf job, I'll just sand it off :D

Cheers!
 
Stu

That looks great! Now, if they were REALLY rich you could convince them to get a gold cylinder, pop in a forstner bit, slide in the cylinder and glue (CA? or epoxy) turn out the depression

Hey tell them you'll do the job for materials and it will be free if you get to keep the tailings!

Oh, too much coffee too early in the morning

Off for a bike ride with LOML

Jay
 
As far as the leaf application I am not sure, however since you are turning, if your gold leaf will circumnavigate the piece, you may consider making some ever so tiny grooves which will afford you the opportunity for crisp stopping points.
It is a very striking piece thus far. Thanks for the photo.
Shaz :)
 
OK, got a "practice" piece done, I'm somewhat pleased.

The glue really dried too fast, so I had to do it twice, and the loose bits of leaf are certainly the wrong way to go, I need to get them on transfer paper.

To stop the glue from drying so fast, I really, REALLY need to build up a much better foundation of lacquer, fairly thick, that will stop the moisture in the glue from being drawn into the wood.


Practice1.JPG Practice2.JPG

Looks OK, but I can do better.

The accents look too big on this small piece, but on the real one, the piece is quite a bit larger, so they should look OK.

Cheers!
 
Gold Leaf....................Help!!!

Well now, you just happened to stumble onto a subject I know very well. Being a sign man, and having decorated hundreds of fire apparatus, windows, etc. with the Midas Touch, I may be able to help YOU, this time.

You said you sanded the surface to be guilded to a 800 grit finish? Did you seal it to eliminate the porosity of the wood? You could have applied a lacquer finish and rubbed it out to get a really smooth surface to guild. Think of glass, (or a vehicle finish) then you can achieve the finish I refer to. The smoother and non-porous, the better. (trust me on that) A finish of polyurethane would make a nice surface too. It would need to be well cured.

You said you used a "glue" to adhere the leaf to the surface. What was that glue? Normally a varnish "size" (glue, if you will) is used to adhere the leaf. The slower drying sizes are best for getting the best burnish (shine) possible. Sizeing is applied with a brush so it covers the surface completely with a fairy thin film. No heavy build up or gaps. Let this set uintil nearly dry. Experience will tell you when the tack is right by whe you lightly drag a knuckle accross the size and you feel only a light drag or resistance. Too wet and you drown the leaf. Of course, too dry and you take a chance on poor adhesion. You picture looks like you applied the leaf when the glue was too wet.

The leaf on "transfer paper" is called Patent Leaf. It is used for applications in windy situations mostly. Loose leaf, (and you seem to have gotten "scrap" loose leaf) is generally used for most all surface guilding. Sometimes using Patent leaf is harder, especially if the surface to be guilded is irregular, such as what you are doing. The paper just gets in the way. Small pieces of leaf, while harder to work with, will do just fine. Handling the leaf with a sable brush doesn't sound too bad, but we use a Badger hair Guilding Tip to transfer the leaf from a book of leaf (as it is purchased) to the surface. Actually oil in or on the hair of the Tip carries the leaf.

You also said you were instructed to "Pad the gold into place with a smooth balled up tissue"? Never. You should always use a cotton ball. And, if you used the right size (glue), you don't need to wait long after laying the leaf to "Burnish" the gold. If you caught the tack correctly, you should be able to get a real smooth and high sheen burnish with the cotton. Tissue, no matter how smooth, will tear the leaf and ruin the job. Even the cotton will very lightly scratch the leaf, but this usually enhances the burnish, if done right. (experience, again) You don't have to press the leaf into the size (glue) but rather just press enough to ensure good adhesion.

Burnishing the leaf after it is applied and all voids have been filled, is a matter of just lightly rubbing the cotton over the leaf and removing the excess gold. The direction you rub the cotton will impart a "grain" to the guild and this will catch light to give a brilliance to your surface. This is also when the leaf can be spun or engine turned. (think of Craftsman aluminum panels on their saws, lathes and such) That is usually done with a velvet pad, but can be done sith a cotton ball too.

As far as sealing the leaf after application, if you apply lacquer over it, you stand a chance of lifting it as the solvents will penetrate the leaf and curl the size (glue). Better to use a polyurethane finish or clear varnish.

Gold leaf is a beautiful thing, but done hurriedly it can become a mess and look like it. Take your time and you will produce a fine finish.

Hope this long post helps you. If I can do more, please e-mail me.

Aloha, Tony
 
Hey Tony, thanks a ton, I really appreciate it, and I do see that the time factor is important.

Today I got the right glue, and the paper leaf, it was much easier (for me) to handle.

better1.JPG better2.JPG

Now, I removed the last bit of gold, glue and paint from this surface, then I just sealed it, sanded to #320 and gave it a whirl. This glue worked SO MUCH better, but, as you can see, the surface prep sucked, so the final product did too :D

Not to worry, it is a practice piece after all.

I'll be properly painting and sealing up one more, and then sanding it to a smooth surface, on which I'll try this again.

I'm still confident that I can get this to work well, just needed more info, more time and more practice.

Cheers!
 
Hi Stu :wave:,
You are getting to a very powerful piece. Great getting advice like what Tony has to offer. With the "brain base" we have here at the forum it is great to have it exercised. :D
Shaz
P.S. Thanks Tony, been wondering about gold leaf. :)
 
Gold Leaf....................Help!!!

Glad to help. I actually like doing gold leaf work a lot. I'll have to send some pictures of a few things I have done.

Stu, I see you are going in the right direction. Looking much better. So, what glue ? size are you using now? (and what was the first one you tried?) Timing sure is important.

Robert, I learned that from one of the best, my father. I was never more impressed or interested in any other phase of sign work as I was with his gold work. And, I will be happy to help anyone I can with learning it. I'd hate to die and not share my knowledge and experience.

I'll be looking to see your final result. You're on the right track.

Aloha, Tony
 
The first sizing was much like hide glue, I think, the second has a smell to it that I know, I just cannot place, it is not nice stuff, you put a little glob of it in the small pan, and then ten times the amount of thinner, mix it up, it is a soft orange color. it dries to a knuckle squeak level in a few minutes and then, according to the packaging, is supposed to have a 2 hour open time to apply the leaf.

One of the problems with the names of stuff, and a problem I run into all the time here, is that the Japanese used it very specialized, my wife cannot read the Kanji, and unless we had one of those huge dictionaries, the kanji are not in a regular dictionary. This kind of work was very, very specialized and the people who do/did it keep to themselves, so the knowledge is hard to come by. Kind of blows my mind, that a product sold on a shelf in a fairly major shop here, the name of which, the normal person cannot read :huh:

Japanese is a funny language that way, so I cannot tell you the name of the glue:dunno:

................but this is working so much better this time around, I'll keep you posted!:wave:
 
Gold Leaf....................Help!!!

Hey Stu,

Sounds like they have unmixed sizes over there. True, the Japanese do things like this more secretively, because of tradition I would presume. The mix made you what we call quick size. It's OK for some uncomplicated guilding, but for intricate, really good guilds, we always use slow size. That goes on much more even and holds its tack for as much as 24 hours, depending on conditions. A 12 hour window is about average and will give the best burnish to the guild. You could add a DROP of linseed oil to your size mix to slow it down. BUT, I don't recall, without looking it up (which I will do for you) whether it is raw or boiled.

Quite important is the surface preparation. Well cured finishes are necessary and as smooth as possible. The slow size will flow best and level out better than others. It makes the best sense for a really nice guild.

I will try to gather some more information together and send you what I find in a couple days. I am not a walking encyclopedia anymore, Ha Ha Ha. (getting old, you know) But this subject is one of my favorites.

Glad to see progress. I was thinking of trying some on a couple Christmas ornaments soon. (soon as I get a chance to make any)

Aloha for now, Tony
 
Thanks Tony!

I got another practice piece done, and it too is an improvement, but man, did it take a LONG time to do, as I put about 20+ wipe on coats of lacquer on it, with minimal sanding between coats, to build up a base. I sanded to #1500 and it is better, but not how I want it.

I have to figure out some kind of undercoating that is better.

I have this stuff here, they use it as a kind of skim coat on walls before they press in this texturing to the walls, an old way of doing the walls here in Japan. It mixes up with water and dries HARD, and sands nicely, I might give that a try....?

Anyway here is the latest practice piece.

practice_again1.JPG practice_again2.JPG

A quick question for you.

What I do now is mix the size, apply it as evenly as possible, let it dry, about 15 minutes and I get the knuckle squeak thing. I then carefully apply the leaf, overlapping by a fair bit and try to make sure there are no holes. I then VERY lightly with a big puffy soft brush tap down on the leaf, to make sure it is adhering to the size. Tapping may be too strong a word, more like suggesting the leaf adheres to the size. I then waited about 3 hours and lightly brushed off the excess gold. They say the working time for the size is two hours, so I gave it an extra hour.

So, how does that sound to you?

Maybe I should have let the size dry overnight before I brushed the excess?

Cheers! :wave:
 
Stu, I don't know anything about gold leaf, but I have been wanting to do something similar after seeing these pieces by Emmet Kane from Ireland on the del Mano gallery website. The second one is gold leaf, but the ebonized one is acrylic paint. Would an acrylic gold paint work, or does the commission ask for gold leaf?
 

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Wow, those are nice pieces Jeff, thanks for showing us them :thumb:

Gold paint, might work, but they liked the idea of the gilded pieces with "Real" gold..... me and my big mouth..... :doh:
 
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