Picture Frames-Profitable?

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AS guy at work has a brother that is into photography. In March he is scheduled to put 24 pictures up at a local cafe/ bookstore. He has been looking around for some picture frames but so far he is looking at a grand for just the glass. The picture frames would be another 1000 bucks or so. Too much money for him, so he approached me.

My plate is kind of full with the house addition and snowmobiling this winter. I could take or leave the job, but would not even consider it if picture frame making was not profitable. He is not looking for anything fancy, but 16 x 24 picture frames, in glass, can get costly material wise.

I am leery about even giving this guy a quote as he has already checked around and is looking at low balling the cost. I would not need to get rich on this, but I don't want to lose money either...and I am really great at doing the latter.

Any thoughts on making picture frames for profitability?
 
I made frames for a while. The secret of profit is volume. You need to be doing it regularly and you need to invest the money to save wasting the time. I would bet that the guys who have quoted him already for the work ain't making millions. They quote the price they quote because the costs in time, money and materials are such that they need to. Personally, unless you have an underserved market or you want to give your money and/or time to the world of art I would pass.
 
good advice ian;)..........if this guy wants to save money and you feel generous offer to let him work in your shop for "x" money per hour..
 
Travis, I think if you get into this deal, everyone but you and the artist will make money. Sounds to me if they are looking at just basic frames, then that is a commodity biz and not something you want to be trying to beat with even lower prices. A race to the bottom so to speak.
Now, if they wanted you to build a nice gallery wall... that may be a different story.
 
I would pass as well if for no other reason than you said you were busy enough. Taking on this job would not leave you free time.

FWIW,
Wes
 
Travis, I think if you get into this deal, everyone but you and the artist will make money. Sounds to me if they are looking at just basic frames, then that is a commodity biz and not something you want to be trying to beat with even lower prices. A race to the bottom so to speak.
Now, if they wanted you to build a nice gallery wall... that may be a different story.
(scratches head) Let's see, $1K for the glass, $1K for the frames, 24 frames...that's about $80 each ready to hang. (I'll assume the 'frame' price includes any necessary matting.) That sounds either way too high (for commodity frames) or way too low (for gallery/custom framing).

Is something really odd involved, like complex matting or oddball shapes?
 
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(scratches head) Let's see, $1K for the glass, $1K for the frames, 24 frames...that's about $80 each ready to hang. (I'll assume the 'frame' price includes any necessary matting.) That sounds either way too high (for commodity frames) or way too low (for gallery/custom framing).

Is something really odd involved, like complex matting or oddball shapes?

What I was thinking.

Sounds like they want something special for Borg prices.

Just like most customers! ;)

I'd decline politely.
 
You guys all made sense to me. I'll probably decline this one. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and ideas.
 
Pricing depends heavily on size and profile chosen. If these are photos they are probably something like 10" * 12" ish? On that basis the price could be as low as the $80ish but with a complex matt and a fancy moulding they could be 3-4 times that price, done properly. A good mat cutter is $1500 - $2000. A basic mitre cutter is $2000ish. A manual underpinner $1000+. If your used to handling float glass in windows the stuff used in framing is a very different animal. Expect to have to buy about 30 - 50% more than is needed for learning on. Learning curve on mats as well. Matboard comes in lots of grades (acidity) with the highest being 3-4 times (easily) the price of the cheapest. Every wants the high cost board at the low cost price.

Trying to get frame quality mitres on anything other than a knife mitre cutter is a recipe for huge time wasting and lots of scrap material. Unless you want to start this as a business and seek other orders you would probably need to charge double what the price calculates out at to cover the time to do the job right. Thats with a pretty basic moulding.

Of course if the guy doesn't care about getting a real frame finish then by all means take the job. But make sure you get the money up front because no matter what he says before he sees them he will whine like heck afterwards if they are not "right"
 
Travis,

I think you are doing the right thing in declining this one. I don't know much about making frames, but I would bet that it wouldn't be cost effective for you unless you made if your business.

Plus more time to get the sled tuned up for winter! :D
 
Plus more time to get the sled tuned up for winter! :D

I wish I had time. This is the second week in a row I picked up parts to tune up my sled and yet did not get the time to put them on.

Its pretty much ready to go but I would like to get my winch working better, get a rattling shock fixed, and get my torn-up snowflap replaced. I also got a tie rod end that is a touch loose and want to replace that. Its only got 4000 miles on it, so none of this stuff is big, but if you don't keep on top of it, you end up with junk.

You can see the torn snowflap in this picture. In a way its no big deal because even the new one will get torn up by the studded track when I back up, but in a way it is a big deal too. Surprisingly the snowflap is a BIG part of the cooling system. Sleds are cooled by having snow deflected back up under the seat area called the tunnel and onto the radiator at the front of the track. Without the snowflap, the snow just roosts off the back and does not travel up to the radiator and cool the motor.

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Hi,

Many years ago a Dutch Boy paint store closed. The did custom framing. I purchased all of their tools and all of their supplies. I did this because my father painted in water colors, my mother in oils and acrylics, my sister in any form, including collages and I did oils.

I made all of our frames. By purchasing "bundles" of various picture frame moldings and having all of the equipment I was able to make very nice frames suitable for hanging in galleries. And I did this for much less than custom frame businesses charged. I did get all of my money back by doing frames for artist friends and acquaintences.

It was not difficult and the work went quickly. However, I was not a comptitor for mass produced frames from Mexico or places like Aaron Brothers. Unless you want to go into this seriously and feel quite sure you have a market for QUALITY frames, I would stay the heck away from it. ESPECIALLY since this buyer is looking for innexpensive. You cannot, I repeat, cannot compete on price. There are too many machines and too many very low paid third-world workers making frames for you to stand a chance in the "cheap" world.

The other side of the coin: The picture frame business is fun if you have a good clientel that want and can pay for high quality frames. Any intelligent artist, say someone who sells their paintings for $2,500 and up, is going to provide a frame that REALLY goes with the art piece; it is part of the art. Somehow I am trying to say that working with the artist to provide something that is part of the art is stimulating and it is fun.

I hope you enjoyed my 2 cents worth.

Jim
 
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